Power Converter Bad?

[willisclarke]

To All: I may owe you all an apology, I just checked the breakers in the engine compartment black box again (difficult to get in to check), and they can be moved. I keep trying to push them in, presumably to reset, but they won't stay. Does this mean that they need to be replaced (going to be a job), or am I again doing something wrong? What kinds of events would trip both breakers? Thanks again, at least I am learning something, which probably you all have been through in the past!

Willis

[glenn allen]

Here is an idea, most, but maybe not all converters have a AC power cord attached. Inverters/Converters are sometimes hard wired. If yours has a AC power cord then find a good heavy extension cord and plug the converter into that then plug the cord into the house. If the converter is bad it will overload the circuit that you plug the cord into and trip the breaker. If the converter is good it will put out voltage and begin to charge the batteries. If the batteries are very low the output of the converter can be a long ways under the 12.6 vdc that you may be looking for. As the voltage of the batteries rises the load on the converter drops the result of this is that the voltage rises. When the batteries draw about 80% of the rated current output the output voltage will be about what you expect. If the above is the case it won't be long until the cooling fan comes on. As soon as the heat sink warms up the fan should come on. Almost all of the new converters are self limiting in the maximun current they will produce. This keeps them from burning out under overload. The trade off is low voltage output until the demand for current drops below the rated draw. This is part of the problem of why you should not let the battery voltage drop below about 10.5 vdc.

[Old Bounder]

Originally Posted by willisclarke

To All: I may owe you all an apology, I just checked the breakers in the engine compartment black box again (difficult to get in to check), and they can be moved. I keep trying to push them in, presumably to reset, but they won't stay. Does this mean that they need to be replaced (going to be a job), or am I again doing something wrong? What kinds of events would trip both breakers? Thanks again, at least I am learning something, which probably you all have been through in the past!

Willis

I'm not so sure the breakers are bad. There would be a little movement in the reset plunger even if the breaker is not tripped. The plunger would be out about 1/4 inch if tripped. If it's only out about 1/8 inch then they are not tripped.

[willisclarke]

They are only out about 1/8 inch; I will continue testing the Converter tomorrow. So far, after filling the 2 golf cart batteries with water and trickle charging all night, they have held 12.75V all day, so hopefully, I did not ruin them.

[willisclarke]

My PD9155 Converter is out of the coach. It has a 3 pronged plug out of the output side which plugs into a receptacle on the Bay wall, this I assume is the 13+V feed? It has a #10 bare wire ground attached to an external lug, and, two 30A maxi fuses in a well area. The input is a #10 red and black wires pushed into screw lugs like a house breaker. Why can't I simply attach a heavy cord to the input, plug into house 110V, and shouldn't I measure 13V DC off of the output plug. Will this not be a reasonable test or will I potentially cause damage to the converter?

[tomwalt]

Originally Posted by glenn allen

Here is an idea, most, but maybe not all converters have a AC power cord attached. Inverters/Converters are sometimes hard wired. If yours has a AC power cord then find a good heavy extension cord and plug the converter into that then plug the cord into the house. If the converter is bad it will overload the circuit that you plug the cord into and trip the breaker. If the converter is good it will put out voltage and begin to charge the batteries. If the batteries are very low the output of the converter can be a long ways under the 12.6 vdc that you may be looking for. As the voltage of the batteries rises the load on the converter drops the result of this is that the voltage rises. When the batteries draw about 80% of the rated current output the output voltage will be about what you expect. If the above is the case it won't be long until the cooling fan comes on. As soon as the heat sink warms up the fan should come on. Almost all of the new converters are self limiting in the maximun current they will produce. This keeps them from burning out under overload. The trade off is low voltage output until the demand for current drops below the rated draw. This is part of the problem of why you should not let the battery voltage drop below about 10.5 vdc.

I would do as glen allen recommends - install the converter and run an extension cord with a known good 120VAC input to the converter.

[Dave78Chief]

Willisclark,



Your comments make me think you may not understand what the converter is and how it is hooked up. The converter changes 110VAC voltage into 12VDC voltage. The black cable with the 3 prong plug in the picture above is the 110VAC source (input) that plugs into the wall receptacle. The connections on the left side of the unit in this picture are for the red and black 12VDC output cables that connect to the battery bank.

Owners Manual:
http://www.progressivedyn.com/pdfs/1...%20english.pdf

Dave

[mel s]

Originally Posted by willisclarke

I sent in posts that should have been set up as a new thread. My concern is that I started losing 12V power in my 1998 Bounder (28T, Chevy chassis), first the retractable steps, then the heater, pump, etc. The two 6V batteries went dead, even though the coach has been plugged into 120V AC for some time. If I turn on the engine, I get 14V both at the house and chassis batteries. Because I don;t have an informative Owner's Manual, I was not sure which way to press the rocker switches, so, I thought it was something I did. Several posts have gone back and forth, but, the following is where I now stand!

Thank you for any support on my electrical problem. I have measured the voltage across the red and black cables attached to the coach batteries using a VOM (I know how to use), and essentially get zero; the coach is plugged into house 120V. Makes no difference which direction the rocker switches are pressed, still no voltage. With the engine running I get the alternator 14V at both the house and chassis batteries. I have examined most of the fuses I can find and not found one blown: 12V fuse panel in upper cabinet next to fridge, the battery box in engine compartment, but not tested the panel under the steering column (see an earlier I Phone picture in attachment) because its too difficult to get to for an old man. I also noticed that the fan on the Power Converter (PD9155) never runs. Could: 1) a fuse under the steering column cause Power Converter output blockage; 2) you mentioned a fuse in the Power Converter, I could not find it, or, 3) the Power Converter is bad?

Hoping to get to a solution,

Willis
wclarke@rcsis.com

As you may know, since you can start your engine your CHASSIS/engine/starting battery is OK... and since you get 14V to the batteries when the engine is running your alternator is working.

The fuse panel pictured appears to be for CHASSIS/engine/starting battery circuits, (which should include dash heater blower/fan. The entry step should also be powered by the chassis battery, (but probably fused in a different location).

Some things can not be tested unless related things are working... (I'm not sure, but your converter may not work unless the HOUSE batteries are OK).

Are you sure you are getting 120VAC to the converter?
The converter converts 120VAC to 12VDC, (no 120VAC... no 12v from the converter).
Even if you do not have 120VAC you should still should have battery power, (but that is true ONLY if the HOUSE batteries are OK).

If your VOM reads 0 volts "across the red and black cables attached to the HOUSE/coach batteries", your coach batteries are DEAD.
Try to charge them up with a battery charger, (or better yet), take them to a battery shop for filling, charging and testing.

If yours is a 9100 Series Power Converter read this owners manual: RV CONVERTER_MANUAL.pdf

Good luck!

Mel
'96 Safari Sahara

[willisclarke]

Dave78Chief--You are absolutely correct, although I do understand what the Converter does, I didn't know how it was wired. When I bought this coach used, it came without any manuals or informative paperwork (my error); I am learning as I go. I have since obtained a copy of the 1999 Bounder Owners Manual, which tells you nothing regarding locations or how components are supposed to function. I am learning from people like yourself, this Forum is an invaluable resource for me. Now that I know, I will reinstall the Converter and go from there. Thanks again to all!

Willis

[glenn allen]

Converters, for us who are challenged by electrics. The converter is just a up-town battery charger.

It has 120 vac input and outputs 12.6 vdc.

The up-town part is that it will bulk charge at around 14.5 vdc. Maintain at about 13.5 vdc.

Float charge at about 12.75 vdc.

Give or take a volt or so.

In all cases a converter as found in a coach today will put out around 13 vdc when pluged into AC power and not hooked to a battery.

Most of the new ones will have fuse protection for us forgetful people who hook up a battery backwards. A coach battery or a jumper battery. The converter will pull damaging current under these conditions, therefore a set of fuses.

It sounds like this converter will not produce any 12 volt output. If it can be pluged into 120 volts then use a extension cord and plug it into a recepticle that a table lamp will light up on.

One further thing to do before looking for a replacement (already checked the output fuses) If you have a spare battery sitting around charge it up and hook it to the output of the converter and check for output voltage. You want to do this just incase your converter needs a battery to turn it on. The battery you hook to the converter should have at least 10.5 volts dc in it as measured at the terminals.

At this point, if this were mine and I had it pluged into a known hot recepticle and hooked to a battery with a measured 10.5 volts dc and it did not charge the battery (indicated by at least 13.5 vdc on the battery terminals) I would be looking for a replacement.

You might want to think about going to a replacement with more current output. If your system allows this. The reason for this is that the converter carries the load when shore power is applied to the coach. Some people think it is the coach batteries but if that were the case, when parked and hooked to shore power the batteries would discharge. Under these conditions the converter carries the 12 volt load and needs a little extra to keep the batteries charged.

[Jim_HiTek]

Just a note, willisclarke, I have a '94 Bounder and in my rig, the converter is on the opposite side of the rig from the batteries, accessible from a basement compartment under the kitchen wall.

It is definitely powered by a GFI...the one in the bathroom. Then, and here's the interesting part, that power from the GFI also goes to a patio outlet. Then on to the converter. When my converter started behaving poorly, I found that the patio outlet was the culprit. Due to weathering, it was shorting out occasionally due to rain and causing the GFI to pop. But other times, it would open circuit and the 120V to the converter to drop out without me knowing it. And since the converter is the last item on that string, I wouldn't notice it until the house lights would dim.

Before I found that bad patio outlet, when I'd have the problem sometimes I would have to run an extension cord out a window to plug in the converter to a different circuit.

So, when you're looking for the reason for your 120V supply to the converter to be missing, also check your patio outlets.

[mel s]

Before trying to trouble shoot a converter, a converter/inverter or a converter/inverter/ charger ...... find out which equipment you have and learn what it can, (and can not), do.
(This is not directed to the OP since he seems to know what he has).

Always keep the following in mind:

All converters are NOT battery chargers
All converters are NOT inverters

Not all inverters are converters
Not all inverters are battery chargers

The battery chargers in some inverter/chargers are NOT
"3 stage automatic" chargers, (although some are).

Usually, if you have an inverter with a 3 stage "automatic" charger, it must be "SET" to match the type of batteries you are using in your coach.

The chassis batteries in most coaches are NOT charged by the inverter charger, (if so equipped), only the house batteries, (although in some they are)!

[willisclarke]

Eureka! Success (at least mostly), I think. While the Converter was out I replaced both 30A fuses, although only one was obviously blown. I reinstalled, had the house batteries water-filled and charged up to 12.75V, turned on the power, and I am getting 12.6V out of the Converter. Time will tell if everything holds. However, my steps are still not working properly (the issue that started this mess in the first place); they only go in and out with the ignition switch on. I thought it was due to insufficient voltage, but now I am not so sure. The only patio receptacles on this coach are two flip cover units in the utility bay (sewer, water, power cord), but they do not have any buttons for testing or resetting. I've tested the ones with test capability inside and they are OK.

Just a note. I know this process took a lot of comments and advice, I want you all to know how much I appreciate your help, although I was still testing circuits in my sleep. I'm sure Fleetwood could have put this Converter in a more difficult place, but presently, I'm not sure where it would be. If you are a 75 year old, 250# man with PD, try crawling into one of those Bays and changing a fuse on the back side, realizing that if one slips out of your tool (one did), it falls inside the Converter and lodges in the fan blade (it did). It has been a real Xmas adventure. NOW, if I can just get those steps to work properly!

Willis

[willisclarke]

Everything works! You are all winners, thanks a bunch. End of thread.