Community Forums

mjoemort · 11-10-2006, 01:11 AM

we have been looking at used pushers and are concerned with the 2010 fuel issue. can these pre 2007 engines be updated or are you out of luck?

mjoemort · 11-10-2006, 01:11 AM

we have been looking at used pushers and are concerned with the 2010 fuel issue. can these pre 2007 engines be updated or are you out of luck?

Texas Bubba · 11-10-2006, 12:20 PM

What fuel issue are you worried about? Both Cat and Cummins have said that ultra low sulfur fuel is ok in pre 07 engines. No issues that I know of.

Richard and Babs and a Bob Tail Cat · 11-10-2006, 02:13 PM

Have heard the new diesel may be better than the Low Sulfer we have been using.

Fred and Bonnie · 11-11-2006, 05:10 PM

I was reading an engineering magazine the other day; the major concern in the maintenance arena will be leaking seals on older engines due to the change in fuels. The fleet operators, who have cash on hand, are buying up all the '06 standard units they can afford, again due to the anticipated increase in upkeep on the '07 engines. The real concern seems to be fuel injectors operating under increased pressures.

I think time will tell, however I feel the change will be painful, just like the switch was to unleaded gas.

Fred

Gary RVRoamer · 11-12-2006, 03:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">however I feel the change will be painful, just like the switch was to unleaded gas. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And as I recall the unleaded change-over, there was the same rash of "oh my god" articles generating much FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt)but few, if any,documented cases where any actual harm came from the change in fuel blend. It was pretty much a non-event for the average vehicle owner.

Yes, there is a slight reduction in lubricity in the ULSD fuel. And refiners are adding chemicals to ULSD compensate. And if there is any harmful effect, it will take many thousands of miles to see it. Few Rvers ever put enough miles on to be concerned, assuming there is any need to be concerned at all. Just my $0.02...

Fleets are buying pre-2007 spec engines mostly because there will a significant price increase to meet the new emission standards that also go into effect for 2007 production engines - estimates are in the $5,000-$10,000 range for big diesels.

Fred and Bonnie · 11-12-2006, 01:32 PM

Gary, ask ex-military jet engine mechanics what happens when fuel types are changed. It's called "Leaks".

While there were horror stories in the unleaded fuel switch, do you remember how many aftermarket changes were mandated to "clean-up" the older models? I haven't heard of any so far, but change is in the air. The Sunday LA times ran an article on stepped-up enforcement of diesel emission standards, seems the number of deaths attributed to diesel particulate emissions is climbing.

Yes the fleet people are beating the price increase, but they are also buying all the injectors they can get their hands on, anticipating problems.

Time will tell

Fred

mjoemort · 11-12-2006, 11:21 PM

just read your comments, and i thank you. given this info and after some other research, we are going to keep our gasser, with a wait and see attitude

Gary RVRoamer · 11-13-2006, 03:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">do you remember how many aftermarket changes were mandated to "clean-up" the older models? I haven't heard of any so far, but change is in the air. The Sunday LA times ran an article on stepped-up enforcement of </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mandated? By whom? Sorry, but I recall a lot of scare stories and hype for products that supposedly would correct for the lack of lead, but in practice there were very few problems. Of course, for the next several years anybody with an engine problem blamed it on the new fuel blend, but few had any proof. And with all due respect, these are not jet engines - an internal combustion engine is a far different animal.

So yes, time will tell and there will no doubt be a lot written and re-hashed on this subject. But my bet is that this will be equivalent to the Y2K scare - much ado about nothing.

Roland · 11-13-2006, 03:27 AM

In the "For what it's worth column".
Chevron Tech Bullitin FTB-2-1 dtd August/2005 discusses fuel leaks from some vehicle owners using ultra low sulfur (S15)diesel fuel.This is similar to occurrences in the early 1990's when "S500" low sulfur was introduced. It has occurred at "O" ring seals, mostly fuel pump and injector seals. Sporadic failures are anticipated.

One explanation is many of the S15 fuels are expected to contain lower levels of aromatics. This reduction is due to increased hydrotreating to reduce the fuel's sulfur level to 15PPM. Fuel additives do not seem to be the answer -- as they do not change the aromatic content of the fuel.
GOOD NEWS: problem is expected to affect nitrile rubber seals (Buna N) that have seen "long service at high temperatures". Seal failure is not related to lubricity.
BAD NEWS: If you are so lucky as to develope leaks - it isn't cheap.

dieselclacker · 11-13-2006, 06:25 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RV Roamer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">do you remember how many aftermarket changes were mandated to "clean-up" the older models? I haven't heard of any so far, but change is in the air. The Sunday LA times ran an article on stepped-up enforcement of </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mandated? By whom? Sorry, but I recall a lot of scare stories and hype for products that supposedly would correct for the lack of lead, but in practice there were very few problems. Of course, for the next several years anybody with an engine problem blamed it on the new fuel blend, but few had any proof. And with all due respect, these are not jet engines - an internal combustion engine is a far different animal.

So yes, time will tell and there will no doubt be a lot written and re-hashed on this subject. But my bet is that this will be equivalent to the Y2K scare - much ado about nothing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FWIW I agree with Gary. Having worked as an automotive engine mechanic for many years, and during the "Low lead", and Unleaded transition period mentioned above. In my expierience very little problems occurred as a result of going unleaded. Most problems at the very beginning of this period were caused by a drop in fuel octane,rather than absense of lead. Remember there were still lots of vehicles in the 9.5 and even 10 to 1 compression range that were manufactured in the 1960's and first three years of 70's. These required some changing of ignition timing. Engine valve lubrication, and valve seat wear as feared, simply did not occur.

I worked for Mercedes Benz as Diesel engine technician when S500 low sulpher was introduced, and fears of damage to injection system, and seal leaks proved unfounded also.

My two cents worth.

Dieselclacker