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Old 02-01-2015, 12:29 PM   #1
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Propane Tank Expiration

Yesterday I ran into a problem at the Local ACE Hardware. While filling my (Installed) propane tank, one of the employees noticed my 1999 build date for the (Installed) tank. I was told any future propane purchases will require a CERTIFICATION Letter for my INSTALLED tank.

I went inside to talk to the Manager, and explained that an INSTALLED tank is governed by ASME and do not require certification, and PORTABLE tanks are governed by DOT and do require certification. I don't know where to get the ASME Reg Governing ASME Certified Installed Tanks. (I may mean RE-CERTIFIED)

I did a search on IRV 2 but only found a post concerning Portable Tanks.
Could someone Please guide me to a link so I can print out the information and avoid this problem in the future?
I found the site https://www.asme.org but I am unable to download the pubs I would need, my computer doesn’t support the adobe upgrade. The Library charges .25 cents a page.

Thanks For Any Help You Can Provide.

PS: ACE is getting their info from the Local Propane Supplier???
I believe the confusion is that not all RV's have INSTALLED propane tanks. I am not an expert, but I think all CLASS A Motorhomes have installed tanks, (but I do not know this for a FACT)...

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Old 02-01-2015, 12:44 PM   #2
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I think you are right in all counts. I would also like to have the documentation that explains this when faced with this situation.


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Old 02-01-2015, 01:56 PM   #3
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I have seen the links several times, Just not wure which forums.

You are right of course, Send him back to his pump jockey instructor,, They are usually good at explaining it.
Propane Tank Valves and Re-Certification

Might help, alas the next link does not help much but it does contain a pointer;

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Old 02-01-2015, 02:17 PM   #4
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ASME tanks do not require re-certification. Chapter 3 of the DOT Propane Regulations covers materials and equipment.. Information on tanks, ASME and DOT is on page III-2.

"ASME tanks do not have to be retested or inspected after they are placed into service. Prior to the installation of a previously used container, it may be prudent to have the container inspected to assure that there is no corrosion or damage that could impair the integrity of the container.
Welding repairs to ASME tanks can be made only by repair personnel who have been certified under the ASME Code. .

.DOT cylinders are designed for transportation, so their weight is an important consideration. They use thinner walls than ASME tanks and must be periodically recertified and so marked. All DOT cylinders have one or more dates stamped on the cylinder, usually on the collar that protects the cylinder valve from damage. Cylinders cannot be filled if the date on the cylinder has passed. A filled cylinder can be used at any time after the date has expired."
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Old 02-01-2015, 04:17 PM   #5
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Thanks wa8yxm, for the links, the second one wants $75.00 to download the reg. OUCH!!! There is a lot of good info in the first article.

Thanks Hooligan, I was able to download the link and will see if ACE understands the info... The only problem I see is there is no definable terminology concerning built in tanks or RV's. It states size of containers which may be confusing. We will see.

I agree with Papa Jim, I want to carry a document when produced "anyone can read and understand it"... I just don't want to be caught arguing with people that just don't know and are just saying NO because they can...

I did find a link on RV Net discussing the Portable and Installed tank issue, but I was still jumping around looking for info and can't find it Oh Well...
I am going to try and get something from the Propane Dealers in the area, if I do I will share it.
Bilgerat: Chuck, Kassie, Freddie, Lady, Prince, Smokey, Merlin
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Old 02-01-2015, 05:06 PM   #6
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Aside from all that was said, My supplier suggest that I paint the tank on a regular bases to protect the tank. If a tank looks like crap the attendant may and can refuse to fill it.
I went to HD and bought spray paint that same day. Now I paint it every year. just put blue tape over all labels.
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Old 02-01-2015, 05:45 PM   #7
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First off, why would you want an untrained person to fill your ASME tank?

Talk to the manager and ask him to show you evidence that they are using trained and certified personnel.

Tell him that you are concerned that you are being quoted DOT standards rather than ASME standards for your ASME tanks and why don't his personnel know the difference?

Tell the manager that you are considering filing a complaint with their state propane regulator agency and corporate. That you consider that this site is unsafe because of the use of untrained personnel and that under no conditions will you allow them to fill your ASME tank and leave.

Yes, it is the right of a trained filler to deny service if the tank looks in poor condition, has dents, etc. Safety first with propane. They are highly liable if they fill an unsafe tank and it is a judgment call.

Note: the ASME tank fittings are different from a DOT cylinder, so again, don't allow untrained or poorly trained personnel to fill your propane tank.

In the past and currently, it is not uncommon to give some guy a 1 minute how to do it and leave them to fill tanks. Ask about their training before you agree to let them refill and then make a judgment of your own.

Ask yourself...how do you know when your tank is full. How full is full??? How much room is to be left for vapor and expansion due to temperature? Can you name all the components on your ASME tank and explain why they are there? Why two regulators? Why maybe a third regulator inside your stove? Why is the propane detector located near the floor?

If you smell propane what are the critical safety steps? Propane has no smell so why does it smell? When should you/how often should you pressure test and leak test your systems?

Learn about propane, it is a critical component of your system.

Buy a Livingston or Bunzer RV repair book, read the propane section and keep it with you.
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Old 02-01-2015, 06:03 PM   #8
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While you appear to have a valid complaint, every state has it's own propane and tank regulations. So, the store manager may be correct.
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Old 02-01-2015, 06:52 PM   #9
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I think the best advice for you is to keep your tank painted and pretty. It keeps the tank in good condition and doesn't scare the natives. And remember that sometimes you just need to move on to the next station because the policy just plain doesn't allow for anything other than DOT approved propane cylinders. There is a regulatory divide between an ASME designed tank and a DOT approved cylinder but some people are comfortable in their ignorance and won't be swayed by facts.

FWIW two years ago I was refused service because of the condition of my tank. Last summer I pulled the tank and spent a week scraping, brushing and painting. I went back to the same place to fill the tank and was thanked for having my tank "re-certified." One thing I have (mostly) learned over my decades is when to keep my mouth shut.
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Old 02-01-2015, 07:04 PM   #10
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I would rather lead than follow. To do so, one has to speak up. We all learn different things and what works for one doesn't necessarily work for others.
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Old 02-01-2015, 07:25 PM   #11
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Walk gently if you push too hard they may push back and refuse to fill all motorhome tanks. I've asked at two different tsc stores and they refuse to fill motorhome tanks I got two different answers when I asked why. Sad part is they are about a dollar a gallon cheaper than other stores in the area.

As far as training I'm pretty sure most of the training given at a lot of retailers is limited to witch key unlocks the door to the tank. jmho
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Old 02-01-2015, 07:37 PM   #12
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Why not just go to an RV place where they know what they are doing and their normal fill up isn't just someone's BBQ tank. We have found several RV Stores that could fill our tank, as well as many campsites having the equipment. Most of them were fairly reasonable in price.
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Old 02-01-2015, 09:39 PM   #13
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Bilgerat, Ask them to show you that requirement in writing.

ASME tanks are not individually certified by them. The American Society of Mechanical Engineers certifies a company or facility to manufacture tanks to their standards.These tanks may be welded to repair them, but only by a ASME certified welder.
These tanks do not require any further testing. per ASME. They should be kept clean and rust-free. They may be spot-painted only- to prevent further corrosion, but only if not pitted into the base metal. Any ASME tank missing the certification label-or painted over, may not be re-filled.
ASME tanks have no re-certification period.
That is accurate to the best of my memory.
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Old 02-02-2015, 04:29 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Bilgerat View Post
Thanks wa8yxm, for the links, the second one wants $75.00 to download the reg. OUCH!!! There is a lot of good info in the first article.

I did a single Google search,, The 2nd link contains the specific chapter and verse, You can search on those and perhaps find a lower cost (As in free) copy of the regulations, Since they are government regulations you already paid for a copy on April 15th as they say and are entitled to them... Why some company has copyrighted them I can not understand.

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propane, tank

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