Put These In Order Please

[wildeflowers]

Originally Posted by Mountieman

reliability from point a to point b with as little to go wrong as possible.

Good lord, man, you might be in for a bad time.

Originally Posted by Mountieman

I am the type that if a truck gives me trouble, it is gone immediately.

Dollar for dollar I will come out better.

These two things do not jive.

Listen, quality in rvs is my biggest complaint, buuuuuuuut to be completely fair, you have to factor that these are complicated machines, houses on wheels, and things are going to go wrong sometimes, and the customer is demanding more features for less money and they want it quicker, too. Just like your stick and brick, things are going to break, things are going to need maintenance, and sometimes vibration will take its toll.

If you don't think you can deal with that, rving might not be for you.

If you do, I think you are looking at the midrange level of RVs, maybe not a Prevost, but definitely not an entry level.

Regardless, no one is willing to say it, but in my opinion, up til a certain point in RVs, like many other things, you get what you pay for. After my extensive research this year, we elected to pay pretty much double our original budget to get better "quality". FWIW, we went with Tiffin. Newmar was also in the serious running. We purchased a gas coach, if we were looking for a diesel a few more of the mentioned brands would have made the list. We were lucky that we had it. I found anything below this range to be terribly disappointing.

[The Renegade]

Originally Posted by wildeflowers

Good lord, man, you might be in for a bad time.

LOL... Yes I know. I guess thats why are the questions. I know there are problems and understand a lot of moving parts and agree fully. I guess Im just trying to minimize.

Here is what I would tell you guys if you were buying a truck and someone had started a thread on what to buy.

If you want a great reliable half ton truck and do not need a diesel then buy a Toyota Tundra. The trips back in to the shop will be minimal and it will never be engine or drivetrain issues.

If you need a 3/4 ton diesel, buy a Chevrolet with the Duramax and Allison transmission. Great truck. If you want more torque and hp, go ford but in my opinion there will be more small trips to the shop for warranty issues. This last time I went Ford only, and I mean only, because we have a great service dept in town for Ford and the only service dept for chevrolet is 30 miles away.

Someones opinion may vary from this but my opinion is an honest one based on years of experience.

Thats what I want to know about these name brands of motorhomes.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

When I worked, I espoused a philosophy that applies here:

"We can build it for you- good, fast or cheap. Pick two."

Seems to me you're in the "Good, cheap" camp. That means "Not fast."

If you care to, you can look at hundreds of coach designs and individual coaches on the Internet, eventually forming a decent picture of how much $150,000 will get you.

You'll find that you can buy a new, high-quality small coach (e.g., a Lazy Daze Class C), or a 2000-to-2005 diesel pusher from a top-tier company for that money. RVTrader currently lists 8,700 Class A coaches for sale between $50,000 and $150,000 asking price, the oldest being a 1980 Prevost. In fact, many of the oldest coaches are Prevosts- that should tell you something right away.

I own two cars, one each 2003 and 2009. I plan to baby them until I die. In my opinion, the new cars are too complicated. If you fall into the same camp, you'll want to buy an older coach. But, watch out for components that are no longer made.

I once heard that the best way to train bank tellers to spot counterfeit currency is not to handle a lot of it, but instead to have them handle a lot of real currency, so that when the fake stuff crosses their hands they know by instinct there's something not OK about it. The best thing you can do is to review those 8,700 RVTrader Class A coaches.

[mike brez]

Originally Posted by Smitty77

10-4 - My bad on the Dynomax vs Dunamax typo. And concur that older CC's were on the Gillig chassis, with I believe many times the BF Goodrich Velvet Ride Suspension. The Concept CC models, rolling extremely well built craftsman classics, were on this chassis too...

And we both should have pointed out that CC also had some Prevost based models, again, on a different Prevost chassis!

Thanks for clarifying this... Many higher end manufactures had unique chassis. Beaver had the Magnum as an example, before ending up on the Monaco Roadmaster series towards the later years.

A very diverse group of coaches, chassis and engines for sure!
Best,
Smitty

Going to have to do some digging. I have never seen a Gillig with velvet ride. I know a bunch of Monacos with the velvet ride.

[The Renegade]

Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1

When I worked, I espoused a philosophy that applies here:

"We can build it for you- good, fast or cheap. Pick two."

Seems to me you're in the "Good, cheap" camp. That means "Not fast."

If you care to, you can look at hundreds of coach designs and individual coaches on the Internet, eventually forming a decent picture of how much $150,000 will get you.

You'll find that you can buy a new, high-quality small coach (e.g., a Lazy Daze Class C), or a 2000-to-2005 diesel pusher from a top-tier company for that money. RVTrader currently lists 8,700 Class A coaches for sale between $50,000 and $150,000 asking price, the oldest being a 1980 Prevost. In fact, many of the oldest coaches are Prevosts- that should tell you something right away.

I own two cars, one each 2003 and 2009. I plan to baby them until I die. In my opinion, the new cars are too complicated. If you fall into the same camp, you'll want to buy an older coach. But, watch out for components that are no longer made.

I once heard that the best way to train bank tellers to spot counterfeit currency is not to handle a lot of it, but instead to have them handle a lot of real currency, so that when the fake stuff crosses their hands they know by instinct there's something not OK about it. The best thing you can do is to review those 8,700 RVTrader Class A coaches.

You are dead on my friend. I have been through RV.Trader till Im blue in the face and ran the laptop battery down many times. Thats my problem.. I can look at all of them but do not know one name brand from another. I guess I will just have to keep at it.

The wife has found and negotiated out a deal in Pennsylvania for a 2013 Jayco Seneca with 19k miles for 115k. Its a good deal except I would rather go class a if I can find one before she makes me go get the Seneca. LOL

Here is what I am taking from what I have read from you guys. Most of the coaches are basically the same except for a several high end builders which is out of my budget unless they are around 10-12 years old. The rest kind of blend together and would then be based on floor plan. Am I reading this and understanding this right?

[Smitty77]

Originally Posted by mike brez

Country Coach's in house chassis was a Dynomax not a Dynamax.
They also came on a Gillig bus chassis before they started building their own(Dynomax)with help from Gillig. They also came with Detroit engines.

10-4 - My bad on the Dynomax vs Dunamax typo. And concur that older CC's were on the Gillig chassis, with I believe many times the BF Goodrich Velvet Ride Suspension. The Concept CC models, rolling extremely well built craftsman classics, were on this chassis too...

And we both should have pointed out that CC also had some Prevost based models, again, on a different Prevost chassis!

Thanks for clarifying this... Many higher end manufactures had unique chassis. Beaver had the Magnum as an example, before ending up on the Monaco Roadmaster series towards the later years.

A very diverse group of coaches, chassis and engines for sure!
Best,
Smitty

[vito.a]

I agree with the others that this is a very price and length dependent question.
Ultra-Expensive: I would put Newell, Prevost, Featherlight, and Vantare at the top of the ultra-expensive (over 1$ million) lineup.
New: For the rest of us mortals I would rank Entegra and Newmar near the top for a new coach. I disagree with some of the others and would not put Tiffen in that group, but right in the middle.
Used: For a used diesel coach, I would recommend Travel Supreme (changed to Integra in 2009), Country Coach (built some great high end coaches like Lexa, Affinity, and Rhapsody), Monaco-Holiday Rambler-Beaver (good bang for the buck and plentiful), Newmar (used Newmar coaches can be expensive so I lower the ranking), Foretravel (can also be expensive), American Coach, and then maybe Tiffen in the middle.
After this it becomes a crap shoot. Just some thoughts:Look for side radiator vs rear, watch out for 30,000+ pound coaches with a 5.9L Cummins ISB (they are under powered), the little Cat 3126/C7 is troublesome, and diesel coaches with a tag axle will drive/handle fantastic. Unlike some others, shop chassis and engine first and then floor plan. You can have the greatest floor plan on a bad chassis and it will be a nightmare.
Finally: Something no one talks about is the toilet. I refuse to own a coach with a small plastic toilet!

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Originally Posted by Mountieman

The wife has found and negotiated out a deal in Pennsylvania for a 2013 Jayco Seneca with 19k miles for 115k. Its a good deal except I would rather go class a if I can find one before she makes me go get the Seneca. LOL

Here is what I am taking from what I have read from you guys. Most of the coaches are basically the same except for a several high end builders which is out of my budget unless they are around 10-12 years old. The rest kind of blend together and would then be based on floor plan. Am I reading this and understanding this right?

Hmm. you are looking at everything, and your wife is looking at one coach.

If my wife and I were that far apart, I'd try to understand why, before I went any further.

Or, buy the Seneca, enjoy it, and sell it later for something else, should you feel it doesn't meet your desires.

On your last comment about "Most of the coaches are basically the same except...," all I can say is that there are a lot of satisfied owners of coaches other than Prevosts or Foretravels. That is the same as saying (years ago) that there are plenty of satisfied car owners other than those of Cadillacs and Lincolns.

Any coach you buy will require maintenance and repair. And, some of those repairs will have to be made on their schedule, not yours. Think house, not car.

[The Renegade]

Ok Good info here now... There have been several recommend Monaco. I actually found one a while back and it was on a roadmaster chassis I think and some on here said to stay away from it. Yep said it had troubles. Is there anything to this?Is the roadmaster chassis ok? Is the freighliner chassis better as far as handling?

[twogypsies]

You've gotten a ton of answers since you first began investigating in February. It's time to make a decision. Nothing is going to be perfect for you and I will imagine that you'll always be wondering 'what if'. Summer's coming up... you need to get out there and enjoy your RV!

[vito.a]

The Roadmaster Chassis is one of the best. It is based on a Chrysler military vehicle design. They were built in house by Monaco for each individual coach. Monaco built them in several flavors, so some of the older 4 bag designs made in Indiana are not nearly as good as the mid 2000's ten bag designs made in Oregon. Go drive a 2002-2010 Monaco Dynasty and it will be one of the best handling coaches ever built.

I would say Spartan side radiator chassis, Dynomax chassis, and Roadmaster 8-10 bag side radiator chassis are some of the best non-million dollar designs.

The Freightliner is usually built to a lower price point. I would rank Freightliner much lower (lots of plastic, rear radiators, and even some "Cut" chassis designs where the front and rear suspension are grafted to straight raised rails.

[Boyd R]

Originally Posted by wildeflowers

Good lord, man, you might be in for a bad time.



These two things do not jive.

Listen, quality in rvs is my biggest complaint, buuuuuuuut to be completely fair, you have to factor that these are complicated machines, houses on wheels, and things are going to go wrong sometimes, and the customer is demanding more features for less money and they want it quicker, too. Just like your stick and brick, things are going to break, things are going to need maintenance, and sometimes vibration will take its toll.

If you don't think you can deal with that, rving might not be for you.

If you do, I think you are looking at the midrange level of RVs, maybe not a Prevost, but definitely not an entry level.

Regardless, no one is willing to say it, but in my opinion, up til a certain point in RVs, like many other things, you get what you pay for. After my extensive research this year, we elected to pay pretty much double our original budget to get better "quality". FWIW, we went with Tiffin. Newmar was also in the serious running. We purchased a gas coach, if we were looking for a diesel a few more of the mentioned brands would have made the list. We were lucky that we had it. I found anything below this range to be terribly disappointing.

Some solid advice in that post.

In my opinion, Newmar, Tiffin, American Coach, Entegra are all a cut above the others you listed, but so is the price tag.(TS, Country Coach and several other good choices, but not on your list)

If you are looking to get quality, and not pay for extra bling and features, then I would suggest you look at a brand you like, the difference is in the models.

If you are looking to compare the "XLT vs King Ranch", then it comes within the models each manufacture makes.
Take Newmar for example, in a DP, look at a Ventanna, and work your way up through Dutch Star, Mountain Aire, Essex, London Aire, to King Air.

The Ventanna will do what you described as needing, and they are a good coach. The King Aire has all the bling, and 600hp etc.....etc.........and close to 3 times the cost.......

I believe the manufactures web site list all the added features as you work your way up the list.

As someone pointed out earlier, Entegra goes from Insignia , Aspire, Anthem, to the Cornerstaone.

Tiffin (not sure about gas models) but in DP, I believe it's Phaeton, Allegro Bus, to the Zepher.

[The Renegade]

Originally Posted by twogypsies

You've gotten a ton of answers since you first began investigating in February. It's time to make a decision. Nothing is going to be perfect for you and I will imagine that you'll always be wondering 'what if'. Summer's coming up... you need to get out there and enjoy your RV!

Yes sir you are right. We started out thinking one thing and after we looked we both said no way. We then moved to Class C and spent a lot of time there. We had a good friend who scared us off the Class A's because he said they were so hard to drive. The wife is still there because she thinks it would be easier to drive. I myself would rather go Class A and I am learning why maybe some are more difficult to drive. A 4 bag system on a certain chassis may tend to drift or get blown around in winds. I think I am learning that an 8 bag system on a better chassis is totally opposite and more stable.

All of the questions and research is starting to pay off. I think I am finally figuring some of this out. The question about the Monaco was an '08 on a roadmaster chassis with the 4 bag system.. If I want the things I want in a chassis then I gotta move on up.. lol

[Vanslam]

It took me two years of research, reading, talking to owners, visiting dealers and going to RV shows to develop this exhaustive ranking list: Newmar - enough said. LOL