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Old 05-29-2015, 08:38 AM   #1
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Radiator Change

Has anyone recently had a radiator changed on a DP side radiator configuration. If so

What was the cost of a new, repair, or rebuilt.

What was the labor cost

What was the parts costs. Since I had to pump ~50 gallons of water through the system I will need a complete flush, I am going to have them put in the long life coolant. Also will have them change water pump, hoses, and thermostat.

Does anyone know if the AC condenser cooling unit is internal to the radiator, I know the transmission has a cooler internal to one of the side tanks.

I had a radiator failure on Monday on a return trip home, luckily within 100 miles of home, I had RV towed to the local Cummins shop.

Current estimate is ~+$8K,

~$4K is for the radiator>> assuming new replacement I can probably save on a rebuild/recore which could be done locally. I can save also by buying myself since I loose the markup. (FYI, if I had them get a radiator from Monaco the cost would have been ~$14K with their markup).

Labor cost is ~$3000 which seems excessive. I was quizzing the estimator and he was making a big deal out of pulling the radiator, I told him I could do in myself if I had it at my house (no joke).

Anyone with experience with having this done, advice and recommendations appreciated.
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Old 05-29-2015, 09:02 AM   #2
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I had mine done last year - total cost $3600. The labor is what drove the cost up because everything in front of the rad has to be removed. The AC cooling unit on mine was separate. Rad cost was $2000. I had a quote from the dealer and they wanted $3500 just for the rad. I ended up at a specialty rad shop. Once the rad was removed they identified it as coming out of a Volvo truck. The old rad had 3 cores and the new one has 4 (25% more cooling capacity). The old rad could not be recored because of the plastic sides - the new rad is all metal. Looking at the invoice, there doesn't seem to be an up-charge for the rad - they charged me their cost plus a small shipping charge ($50) because it was locally sourced.
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Old 05-29-2015, 09:39 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacwjames View Post
Has anyone recently had a radiator changed on a DP side radiator configuration. If so

What was the cost of a new, repair, or rebuilt.

What was the labor cost

What was the parts costs. Since I had to pump ~50 gallons of water through the system I will need a complete flush, I am going to have them put in the long life coolant. Also will have them change water pump, hoses, and thermostat.

Does anyone know if the AC condenser cooling unit is internal to the radiator, I know the transmission has a cooler internal to one of the side tanks.

I had a radiator failure on Monday on a return trip home, luckily within 100 miles of home, I had RV towed to the local Cummins shop.

Current estimate is ~+$8K,

~$4K is for the radiator>> assuming new replacement I can probably save on a rebuild/recore which could be done locally. I can save also by buying myself since I loose the markup. (FYI, if I had them get a radiator from Monaco the cost would have been ~$14K with their markup).

Labor cost is ~$3000 which seems excessive. I was quizzing the estimator and he was making a big deal out of pulling the radiator, I told him I could do in myself if I had it at my house (no joke).

Anyone with experience with having this done, advice and recommendations appreciated.
Just had mine replaced under warranty so I don't know cost of radiator, but I do know it took them 8 hrs start to finish. Using the 8 hr figure I'd say your labor rate is EXCESSIVE! Seems like the rates always go up when they think they have you over a barrel. They always tell you what a big deal it is and they're trying to help you out, yeah right.
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Old 05-29-2015, 10:35 AM   #4
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Thanks,
My core is aluminum but the end tanks are steel, everything bolts together. The last shop I talked to said recoring wasn't a big issue as long as the end caps were good.

Still trying to figure out if the AC condenser is internal to the radiator. I know there is a small heat exchanger mounted on the outside of the unit that shouldn't have to be removed. I unbolted it and swung it out of the way last year to wash out may radiator good. I wonder if this is the power steering & fan hydraulic cooling unit.

There was an odd connector in the top left corner of the radiator with 2 small hoses going to it, could be the AC cooling unit. See photo below, does anyone know what this is?




I'm beginning to think I made a mistake taking it to Cummins. Seems like high cost and nonresponsive to my questions.

I'll wait until this afternoon before calling again.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Top back Coolant and other connection plus mount.pdf (2.52 MB, 88 views)
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Old 05-29-2015, 10:45 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by jacwjames View Post
Thanks,
My core is aluminum but the end tanks are steel, everything bolts together. The last shop I talked to said recoring wasn't a big issue as long as the end caps were good.

Still trying to figure out if the AC condenser is internal to the radiator. I know there is a small heat exchanger mounted on the outside of the unit that shouldn't have to be removed. I unbolted it and swung it out of the way last year to wash out may radiator good. I wonder if this is the power steering & fan hydraulic cooling unit.

There was an odd connector in the top left corner of the radiator with 2 small hoses going to it, could be the AC cooling unit. See photo below, does anyone know what this is?




I'm beginning to think I made a mistake taking it to Cummins. Seems like high cost and nonresponsive to my questions.

I'll wait until this afternoon before calling again.

If you end up going the rebuild route, you might consider having the transmission cooler on one of the end tanks replaced also. They were a known failure point and it requires a transmission rebuild if coolant contaminates the transmission fluid.


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Old 05-29-2015, 11:33 AM   #6
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Thanks Steve >>> More things to loose sleep over.

I am going to have them check the CAC while it is out. I'll go to the shop and inspect when everything is apart and then decide best course of action.

While I was searching the internet I did find a site that listed all the NHSTA service bulletins from manufacturers. I did a search for Windsor's and there were a number of them including Cooling System in 2002 Windsor. I contacted Monaco with the specific number and they responded that mine was not the SN range for the problem.

The service bulletins are provided to service centers or distributors, they are not widely published so the average Joe has no idea if there is a problem. It is up to the service centers to act on these, I went through this with my Jeep. The problem is Jeep did not allow enough $$ for repair so in most cases the bulletins were not followed up on.

Here is a link to the site
AutoSmash.com
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Old 05-29-2015, 11:42 AM   #7
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OP,
While we don't have a side radiator, some things may remain the same, in certain aspects. Long story short, I had a super slight radiator leak on our '04 Itasca Horizon, 36GD with the C-7 330HP CAT. It wasn't bad enough that warranted a repair, on its own. But, in getting ready for a trip, I was doing a inspection of the radiator and CAC fins for clogging due to blow-by and all that, that is common with that situation.

Well, I found that the CAC and Radiator fins were both clogged by over 30-40%. So, knowing that it would be seriously impossible to clean those two while they were in the coach, I removed them both. 6 hours later, I had the radiator on two saw horses, in prep for cleaning. Well, after cleaning it thoroughly, I noticed some really bad deterioration where one of the tanks was coupled to the aluminum core.

Off to the local radiator shop. Well, I'd already researched a new radiator from Freightliner and knew the price. When the owner of the Radiator shop looked at mine, he stated, "It's shot, NO POSSIBILITY of rebuilding it". And, he pointed to a extra large stack of "shot" aluminum radiators. I said, "CRAP", now I've got to pay almost $1,800 for a new one from Freightliner. He stated, "No you don't, buy one from us, we'll beat that miles". So, he took measurements etc. from mine and, went over to his computer.

Within 1-2 minutes, he had one on his screen that was an exact replacement. And, it's a COPPER-BRASS radiator, not an aluminum one. And, the price was right too. $1,250. The one from Freightliner was going to take approximately 2 weeks to get. His was there, the next day.

So, my point is, do some searching around. Get a hold of a good radiator shop and see what they can do for you. I'd just about bet they can beat your quoted price.
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Old 05-29-2015, 02:14 PM   #8
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Thanks Scott,
I'm hoping that mine can be rebuilt or replaced at a reasonable price. I got prices for direct replacement from 4 different known sources ranging from $6400-3300. None in stock, all at least a week out.

I'm still trying to justify the current labor quote from Cummins, I did talk to the shop foreman and he said they took a SWAG at what was involved. I do not think anyone climbed underneath it (at least I could see evidence of it). I told him that I didn't think it would take 3-4 hours to get it out, really there is plenty of room.

I will call the shop manage this afternoon and stress my concern.

Either way it's got to get fixed & I've used up all my Kleenex wiping my eyes after each time I cried:(
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Old 05-29-2015, 10:30 PM   #9
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I had mine replaced for $4K parts and labor. That was with a new radiator. No way would I pay a Cummins shop $3000 to R&R. At the current going rate of $125/hr, that means they are taking 24 hours to do the job. They are out of their minds!!

When mine was done, the shop removed the radiator and CAC assembly and then separated the two. The new radiator was installed in the assembly and then put back in the coach. Total time was about 8 hours.

$3K for a radiator is ballpark cost and BTW, the A/C condenser is not integrated into the radiator
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Old 05-30-2015, 08:12 AM   #10
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Just had mine done in March. New fan, radiator, and antifreeze for a few dollars less than $3000.00 including labor.
Make sure fan bolts are tight. That's what caused me to buy a new one. Fan into radiator on I95 in Virginia.

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Old 05-30-2015, 09:24 AM   #11
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I have never seen an AC condenser internal to the radiator. In addition to the suggestion to R/R the transmission cooler I would take a very good look at the CAC. If it is not in sterling shape I'd be inclined to R/R it too. The labor cost to do the cooling stack removal twice will probably justify the additional cost.

Do you have a hydraulic fan? If so the two connection in the upper left side are likely the wax valve to switch from Low to High speed fan.
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Old 05-30-2015, 09:42 AM   #12
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I had mine done earlier this year. All aluminum custom built radiator $3400.00. Removal and reinstall around $800.00. Most of the time was draining the coolant...it definitely was a two man job.
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Old 05-30-2015, 10:32 AM   #13
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I fixed a oil leak repair after a $1,700 quote from Cummins West for less than $10 @ six years ago.

They will give you a great repair while reaching deeply into your wallet.......
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Old 05-30-2015, 03:34 PM   #14
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I drove back to the shop today to take a good look at the required work etc.

The radiator has 2 lines coming from the fan/steering hydraulic circuit, 2 lines from transmission, and the coolant lines. It is bolted to the frame that supports the CAC. It appears that the fan can be easily removed and or just unbolted from the shroud and pulled out of the way. The shroud should come off easy. The radiator and CAC should be able to be taken out together or apart. Since the height of the unit is ~25" there is enough room to drop it down and bring it out from underneath without too much trouble.

The AC Cooling unit is bolted to the outside of the radiator CAC stack so it does not have to be drained, removed, reinstalled, evacuated and charged probably saving ~$500 in labor and Freon.

With the proper tools I don't see where it should take more then 3-4 hours to remove. I've sent an email to the manager detailing this. He already knows that I can be a royal PITA and anticipated scrutiny. I also talked to the shop foremen yesterday explaining that I want a detailed hour breakdown and don't expect it to be nearly as high as they quoted.

Also, there appears to be a number of punctures in the lower right hand side of the inside core which is where the leak was. The rest of the core looks good. After they pull it out & I can get a good look at it I will consider filing an insurance claim, I already called my insurance agent and explained the problem.
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