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Old 05-01-2012, 08:36 AM   #57
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From what I have read the companies that install the cameras usually get most of the money. The companies get all or most of the ticket money until the equipment is paid for and then a big percentage after for their overhead.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:37 AM   #58
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There are plenty of red light cameras here in Ottawa, ON.

Wherever I have travelled, wherever there is a light, there is a Walk/Don't Walk signal. Most people have their eyes stuck on the light colour... look at the Walk/Don't Walk signal as you approach. If the hand is flashing, then the best thing to do is not maintain your speed but begin to slow down in anticipation of the light turning yellow.

Remember that, if an actual police officer is monitoring, they can make a judgment call as to whether the vehicle was able to stop or not and decide whether they're going to write you up or not. A camera can not make that judgment call and it's settings dictate whether it'll snap your picture or not. I don't believe I have ever heard of any case where someone came up with a good enough excuse to get out of a red light ticket.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:19 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieharder View Post
...
Most people have their eyes stuck on the light colour... look at the Walk/Don't Walk signal as you approach. If the hand is flashing, then the best thing to do is not maintain your speed but begin to slow down in anticipation of the light turning yellow.
...
While this is a very good rule of thumb, it's not flawless. Most of the signals here in the Metropolitan Washington area have the countdown timer in additon to the hand signal. Just about all of the drivers that I have seen will watch the countdown timer, and speed up as the timer gets around 5 seconds. The problem is in downtown DC where one of the walk signals/timers will go to zero while the green light will stay on for about another minute or two allowing right turns (no right turn arrow, just a green light extended beyond the Dow't Walk signal). I can't tell you how many times I have seen cars STOP at the intersection for a still green light because they saw the countdown timer hit zero.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:14 PM   #60
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Just loaded up my Rand McNally 5510 with Red Light Camera POI's. Got them from poi-factory.com . They come out with an update every week or so, I figure I'll update monthly.
And it works. Drove by the known RL camera by my house and got a very LOUD: WARNING! APPROACHING RED LIGHT CAMERA IN 600 FEET!
I am a law-abiding citizen. I don't run red lights and I don't stretch yellows either. But I've had too many friends get nailed for being caught in the intersection when the light turned red while trying to make a left turn in traffic. I don't care what the law says, they will assume you're guilty and most folks won't fight it because it's just too much of a PITA to do so.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:28 PM   #61
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I heard you don't have to pay it in Missouri because the Supreme court there says it's not inforceable but they still keep sending them out. I guess they scared people into believing they are legal. Maybe I heard wrong.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:41 PM   #62
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I found this in my CDL manual, hope this helps
At 45mph a rig will travel 66 ft in one second, driver reaction distance is 50 ft, vehicle braking distance is 320 ft, total stoping distance at 45 mph is 310 ft.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:03 PM   #63
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Average perception and reaction distance (time the threat is perceivable to time foot hits brakes) at 45 mph has been shown through studies to be around 100 ft (1.6 seconds). For an air brake equipped vehicle you then have to add in about another 0.5 seconds for air brake lag, so you're talking around 135+ ft before braking even starts to slow the vehicle down.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:36 PM   #64
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They claim the cameras are a safety item, But there was a story in our local paper that intersections with red light cameras had a sharp increase in rear end collisions. It seems drivers were freaking out and slamming on brakes, causing rear end collisions.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:51 PM   #65
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Face Your Accuser

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i WAS TOLD THAT RED LIGHT CAMERA CITATIONS WERE TOTALLY BEATABLE AND COULD NOT STAND IN A COURT OF LAW. UNDER THE PROTECTION OF OUR CONSTITUTION YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE YOUR ACCUSER PRESENT IN A COURT OF LAW. WELL CAMERAS CANT WALK IN NOR DO THEY SPEAK. THAT BEING SAID ANY TYPE OF REPRESENTATION FROM THE CAMERAS REPRESENTITIVES IS PURE HEAR SAY. THE MINUTE THEY OPEN THEY'RE MOUTH YOU DECLARE HEARSAY YOUR HONER AND IT SHOULD BE SUSTAINED. I AM NOT A LAWYER THOUGH BUT HAVE READ THIS AND IT MAKES GOOD SENSE TO ME.
Most of the details of this quote are actually being tested in California Courts as I write this.

In CA, you can opt to object to a moving citation (a non-criminal infraction of the vehicle code) by mail before the summons court date, including a demand to face your accuser.

Well, for now the court believes the accuser is the camera system manufacturer...and no - they aren't showing up in court.

The State Attorney Genl is fighting to allow the PO-lice to represent the camera evidence in court, but the typical cop can't testify about the specifics of the electronics in the system...so that's not working - so far.

They say it's all about safety, but at $291 for the first citation in most townships, it's really all about revenues!

I don't run red lights, but I don't like the camera either
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:35 PM   #66
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The municipality and/or camera system installer would be your accuser(s).. not the camera manufacturers.. I dont see how this is hard to decide?
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:38 PM   #67
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The municipality and/or camera system installer would be your accuser(s).. not the camera manufacturers.. I dont see how this is hard to decide?
I agree, the entire situation is ridiculous. Crooks are convicted all the time using the footage from security cameras.

If the people who install and maintain the cameras also send out the tickets, then they are the accusers and should be required to show up in court. If the City or Police Departments send out the tickets, then they are the accusers. To cut local government costs, the people maintaining the cameras can cull the photos that can't be enforced and send the enforceable ones on to the City or police who can then issue the tickets.

Even the problem of the inability to ID someone in a photo could be eliminated by changing the laws to make the owner of the vehicle responsible for any violations. If they don't want to give up who was actually driving, then the owner can pay the penalty. That would also cover for allowing impaired or underaged drivers to use a vehicle.

Frankly, I don't give the north end of a small south bound furry rodent if jurisdictions and private companies are making money off the cameras. They still reduce the load on already overworked LEOs without costing the cities anything and they do reduce the amount of red light running. If people don't want to pay the fine, then slow down and pay closer attention. The argument that cameras cause rear end collisions is bogus; the real issue is driver inattentiveness, following too close, etc.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:00 PM   #68
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The municipality and/or camera system installer would be your accuser(s).. not the camera manufacturers.. I dont see how this is hard to decide?
Errr...no This has actually been reported in the local news, lately...I'm not making it up.

Neither local Gov't officials nor the installers could speak to defense arguments about how, when, or why the system would be directed to take the picture. The defense attorney's are agruing that only the manufacturer/designer could answer to the details about these system details.

There are several smaller townships that have removed the cameras for this reason...plus the manufacturers are collecting a large percentage of the revenues under their installation agreements.

Really...I'm not making this up Crazy...huh?!
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:40 AM   #69
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Errr...no This has actually been reported in the local news, lately...I'm not making it up.

Neither local Gov't officials nor the installers could speak to defense arguments about how, when, or why the system would be directed to take the picture. The defense attorney's are agruing that only the manufacturer/designer could answer to the details about these system details.

There are several smaller townships that have removed the cameras for this reason...plus the manufacturers are collecting a large percentage of the revenues under their installation agreements.

Really...I'm not making this up Crazy...huh?!
And how hard would it be for LEOs and other Government officials to learn the system details? It's not much, if any, more complicated that a LEO using a radar or laser gun. You are correct when you say it is crazy. We had a State legislator here in AZ recently try to change the red light law after he got nailed by a red light camera.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:47 AM   #70
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Just watched on the news that a town got caught lowering the time of the yellow light right after they installed the camera. Legislators wants to put a minimun 3 seconds on them now.
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