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Old 09-30-2014, 11:09 AM   #1
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Rocking Stool

We had Camping World install a new stool a month ago. It was a bad installation to begin with and then the installer discovered there is a 'shim' they sell for $70 that was supposed to stop the moving around. Well it didn't. It still moves. I think the pipe to the tank is too tall causing the grief. Anyone ever run into this and if so, how did you fix it?


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Old 09-30-2014, 12:05 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wilson View Post
We had Camping World install a new stool a month ago. It was a bad installation to begin with and then the installer discovered there is a 'shim' they sell for $70 that was supposed to stop the moving around. Well it didn't. It still moves. I think the pipe to the tank is too tall causing the grief. Anyone ever run into this and if so, how did you fix it?
Thanks,
Alan
2001 HR Scepter 38PBD 330 Cummins
Alan Wilson
I suggest you take it to a real/reasonable/reliable RV repair place!
(Few CWs "care enough" to do anything right).
Mel
'06 Safari
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Old 09-30-2014, 03:00 PM   #3
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Alan Wilson
I suggest you take it to a real/reasonable/reliable RV repair place!
(Few CWs "care enough" to do anything right).
Mel
'06 Safari

I know what you mean but I was 1500 miles from home and was in a 'bind'😜 and had to replace the existing stool. I wondered if the pipe could be shortened a little or the stool shimmed up to eliminate the rocking.


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Old 10-01-2014, 09:24 AM   #4
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Was your old stool leaking? If so, the subfloor may be rotted or at least compromised in strength. When I pulled up our old toilet the subfloor under the toilet was ok, but water had run through the plywood and it was rotten a foot out, all around the toilet. When I tore out the rotted subfloor, I found that the 1x1 steel frame member on one side of the toilet was completely rusted away. Long story short I spent about two weeks rebuilding the floor before I got back to installing the new Thetford.

Hope that isn't the problem in your case, but something to check. And, STAY AWAY from Camping World!!
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:38 AM   #5
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Was your old stool leaking? If so, the subfloor may be rotted or at least compromised in strength. When I pulled up our old toilet the subfloor under the toilet was ok, but water had run through the plywood and it was rotten a foot out, all around the toilet. When I tore out the rotted subfloor, I found that the 1x1 steel frame member on one side of the toilet was completely rusted away. Long story short I spent about two weeks rebuilding the floor before I got back to installing the new Thetford.



Hope that isn't the problem in your case, but something to check. And, STAY AWAY from Camping World!!

Climbon, the other one didn't leak. It was an electric one that would too often stay open on a flush. 😣 Not good. Couldn't flush at night as it sounded like a Gleaner combine. 😁Those are the two reasons we changed stools. I am fully aware of CW capabilities but I haven't found an independent in Iowa that is any better. What do you do? We were in Idaho headed west when we just couldn't take it anymore. I could think of no reason to wait till I got home. The options weren't any better.


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Old 10-01-2014, 02:04 PM   #6
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Installing one of those is hardly rocket science, even for the electric ones. Any competent handyman should be able to figure out why it rocks and fix it. Maybe a mobile RV tech? Or even a campground maintenance guy?

If it's an electric, the pipe through the floor goes to the macerator pump, not the tank. The tank is well away from there. Still could be that the pipe length is wrong and preventing a tight fit to the floor, I guess.

That $70 "shim" sounds like the riser that is added when people want a taller stool. It doesn't fix rocking - just raises you up a couple inches.
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Old 10-01-2014, 05:09 PM   #7
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Installing one of those is hardly rocket science, even for the electric ones. Any competent handyman should be able to figure out why it rocks and fix it. Maybe a mobile RV tech? Or even a campground maintenance guy?

If it's an electric, the pipe through the floor goes to the macerator pump, not the tank. The tank is well away from there. Still could be that the pipe length is wrong and preventing a tight fit to the floor, I guess.

That $70 "shim" sounds like the riser that is added when people want a taller stool. It doesn't fix rocking - just raises you up a couple inches.

Gary,
The one I took out was electric flush in which there was a blade that would open (And stay open!) and it would spray a measured amount of water into the stool while it flushed. There is no macerated pump. There is only a pipe that goes to the tank. This stupid shim was about 3/8" thick so it didn't add anything to the stool. I haven't ever looked at the bottom of one of these stools or looked at what the pipe that connects to the stool. I can do lots of things but plumbing is not a strong suite. I considered pulling the stool and cutting or grinding a small amount off the pipe to allow it to sit a little lower but I fear that if it is too low the. I have a problem which is why I was trying to talk to someone that has run into this before that had some insight to a solution. What a pain in the a$$! Ha, pun intended 😄


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Old 10-02-2014, 08:54 AM   #8
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I looked up the install manual http://www.thetford.com/LinkClick.as...d=563&mid=1452 . Looks like it calls for 3" hex head screws to screw the flange to the floor, if toilet is installed over wood subfloor (carpet to be removed). If installed on tile, holes need be drilled through the first, before drilling pilot holes in subfloor.

The hold down screws are only 1/4", and they are supposed to be tightened to 20-23 foot-pounds. There is a caution not to over tighten.

Given the installer, I would guess several things could be wrong. It is possible that they drilled too big pilot holes and the bolts won't tighten to the proper torque. It is possible they over torqued the bolts and a) stripped the holes in the subfloor, or b) cracked the rim around the bottom of the toilet.

If toilet was installed over tile, the underlying tile became loose during the install, giving the toilet rim an unstable surface.

You should check the hold down bolts and the toilet rim. See how tight the bolts are and look for cracks.

It looks like the bowl and pedestal do not come apart, so the only explanation for movement has to be the bolts.
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Old 10-02-2014, 09:02 AM   #9
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I thought of one more possibility. If the toilet is installed over carpet (I assume that is what the 3/8" riser is for) it totally possible they didn't cut the underlying carpet out. Something to check.

If the drain pipe is too high, the hold down bolts properly torqued should still make a pretty stable stool.
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Old 10-02-2014, 09:08 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Climbon69 View Post
I looked up the install manual http://www.thetford.com/LinkClick.as...d=563&mid=1452 . Looks like it calls for 3" hex head screws to screw the flange to the floor, if toilet is installed over wood subfloor (carpet to be removed). If installed on tile, holes need be drilled through the first, before drilling pilot holes in subfloor.



The hold down screws are only 1/4", and they are supposed to be tightened to 20-23 foot-pounds. There is a caution not to over tighten.



Given the installer, I would guess several things could be wrong. It is possible that they drilled too big pilot holes and the bolts won't tighten to the proper torque. It is possible they over torqued the bolts and a) stripped the holes in the subfloor, or b) cracked the rim around the bottom of the toilet.



If toilet was installed over tile, the underlying tile became loose during the install, giving the toilet rim an unstable surface.



You should check the hold down bolts and the toilet rim. See how tight the bolts are and look for cracks.



It looks like the bowl and pedestal do not come apart, so the only explanation for movement has to be the bolts.

I know they used the same bolts to install the new stool cause the guy flagged the problem right away and was showing me the plastic shims he was going to use. Told him no way. I will check the tightness. Thanks!


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Old 10-02-2014, 12:16 PM   #11
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Sorry - when you said "electric flush" I thought you meant the macerator type. What make & model is it, anyway? A few pertinent details would avoid confusion like this.

The standard gravity flow toilet just screws to a floor flange and the pipe should not be an issue if the old one fit OK. You could make your own thicker shim, even if just a temporary trial, to see if that helps. Carpets and floor tiles are a factor, of course, but shouldn't cause rocking. This seems a basic mechanical thing with the seating of the stool to the flange, not plumbing per se.

The floor (closet) flange makes the transition to the sewer pipe and some models depend on the flange height and flange seal more than others. The Thetford Aria, for example, wants exactly 7/16" above the surrounding floor to make a tight seal. My Sealand 510+, on the other hand, tolerates a half inch or so variation without issue. It sounds as though that shim he added may have compensation to lift the flange up above the surrounding floor level. Too high, maybe? Try it without the flange shims?


By the way, you can usually use an extra thick, standard wax toilet flange seal (available at any hardware store) if you need a thicker seal between stool (bowl) and flange.
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Old 10-02-2014, 04:18 PM   #12
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Sorry - when you said "electric flush" I thought you meant the macerator type. What make & model is it, anyway? A few pertinent details would avoid confusion like this.

The standard gravity flow toilet just screws to a floor flange and the pipe should not be an issue if the old one fit OK. You could make your own thicker shim, even if just a temporary trial, to see if that helps. Carpets and floor tiles are a factor, of course, but shouldn't cause rocking. This seems a basic mechanical thing with the seating of the stool to the flange, not plumbing per se.

The floor (closet) flange makes the transition to the sewer pipe and some models depend on the flange height and flange seal more than others. The Thetford Aria, for example, wants exactly 7/16" above the surrounding floor to make a tight seal. My Sealand 510+, on the other hand, tolerates a half inch or so variation without issue. It sounds as though that shim he added may have compensation to lift the flange up above the surrounding floor level. Too high, maybe? Try it without the flange shims?


By the way, you can usually use an extra thick, standard wax toilet flange seal (available at any hardware store) if you need a thicker seal between stool (bowl) and flange.

Gary,

I'm sorry for any confusion cause I've only known of one type of electric stool. The only macerator I have seen is the one on the outlet of the tank used to dump it.

The stool is on floor tile and when he first put the stool over the "shim" it rocked quite a bit. He tightened it up and I thought it was fixed. I think I am going to see how tight the stool is and go from there. I don't really want to pull the stool. I'm just not that flexible anymore.


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Old 10-03-2014, 01:13 PM   #13
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I removed an electric flush from my Endeavor and installed a standard manual flush and had the same problem you are having. I went to Home Depot and got some tapered plastic shims in the plumbing dept. Problem solved.
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:10 PM   #14
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I removed an electric flush from my Endeavor and installed a standard manual flush and had the same problem you are having. I went to Home Depot and got some tapered plastic shims in the plumbing dept. Problem solved.

😃 just what wanted to hear. Such a simple thing. Thanks!


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