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Old 07-10-2015, 01:18 AM   #1
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??: Should a tire shop use a customer's leveling Jacks to install new tires.

Ok here's a nightmare that a friend had to deal with today.
They dropped off their coach at a tire shop to get new tires installed and left to go to lunch. When they came back the shop had used the rig's hydrolic leveling jacks to lift it up off the ground to change tires. The motor for them had been burnt up and 150 amp fuse had been blown and they couldn't get the jacks to retract because the system had been over pressurize. The rig had a Lippert system in it. My question is: Do you think the tire shop is responsible for the damage? In all the owners manuals that I have read it states not to use the leveling system to raise the coach off the ground.
It's a 2009 Safari Cheeta 42PAQ.
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Old 07-10-2015, 01:35 AM   #2
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I did when they put new tires on our previous rig but we had an HWH system and it was sized correctly with 12,000# rams all the way around. 40' Dutch Star that weighed about 32,000#'s
Newmar said it was OK
Reyco Granning said it was OK
Spartan said it was OK
HWH said it was OK

Now, if the owners manual for their rig said not to do it then the shop is definitely responsible for the damage they caused.
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Old 07-10-2015, 01:42 AM   #3
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Absolutely the Tire Shop should be responsible for the repairs ! Just flat out laziness from the employees not to use the proper HD jacks.
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Old 07-10-2015, 01:49 AM   #4
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I think they are liable for the damage. I'd suggest to your friend to call his insurance company and see what they say.

Insurance will probably cover it and sue the tire company.
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Old 07-10-2015, 05:35 AM   #5
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Normal hydraulic systems can't be overloaded because they should have a relief valve that opens at the end of the stroke.

Quote:
The rig had a Lippert system in it.
Perhaps that is where the blame lies.
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Old 07-10-2015, 05:43 AM   #6
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I don't have an issue with using the jacks, and if the shop operated the jacks without permission then the shop should be paying for repairs. JMHO


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Old 07-10-2015, 08:07 AM   #7
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The shop should have used their own jacks.
That said, using the coach's jacks should not have damaged the pump.
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Old 07-10-2015, 09:11 AM   #8
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I have a 2009 40' Safari Chetah and the manual says not to use the Lippert system to raise it completely off the ground. However I had to remove my pump system to replace the seal in the hydraulic pump. It was leaking oil. There is a good chance that the one in question was leaking as well, my understanding is that they use poor seals. It was hard as a rock when I changed it. If you continue to use it when it is leaking, hydraulic fluid can leak into the motor and short it out. I personally don't think raising the coach burnt out the pump but it may have done other damage to the running gear because it exceeded its normal travel.
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Old 07-10-2015, 09:15 AM   #9
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I use my jacks to lift my MH off the ground for tire, brake, etc. repair. But the repair shop should have ask the owner to lift it. The tire shop is at fault for screwing around with things they don't know about without permission.
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Old 07-10-2015, 09:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsbear View Post
I don't have an issue with using the jacks, and if the shop operated the jacks without permission then the shop should be paying for repairs. JMHO


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Old 07-10-2015, 09:19 AM   #11
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Angry Overlooking something else

I think most of you replying are overlooking something else. The fact that the shop did not have permission to use the Motor Home jacks and the fact that the shop employees may not have been Familiar with the operation of the jacks. I had a similar situation at the National RV factory back in 1997 when a shop mechanic operated my jacks when one of them would not retract. He extended it all of the way and then hit the release. The jack that would not retract stayed in place and the other jacks retracted, Torquing the frame and popping out the Windshield and breaking it. The factory paid for the damage and I later learned that the man who did this was not trained and a new hire. Most of the workers in the tire shops are not trained and do not know how to use the jacks on a motor home properly. a good example is most of them trying to use a impact wrench to remove the chrome wheel liners. The manual clearly states how it should be done using a special tool and no more than 35 lbs of torque. A major Tire chain found this out the hard way when on my previous motor home They used a impact wrench and damaged 2 of the wheel liners. I lost one not 25 miles from the shop after picking up the motor home. It cost them $179 to replace the damaged ones. Yes the tire shop is responsible. I just got new tires yesterday on my new to me rig. I had to tell the truck tire shop how to remove the wheel liners. They had enough sense to not to try and use my jacks. My jacks have a auto level feature and if used wrong can pop out the windshield or cause other damage.
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:16 AM   #12
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Well stated Mel. Also great input from all of you. I'll keep you up to speed as to the outcome.
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake74 View Post
I use my jacks to lift my MH off the ground for tire, brake, etc. repair. But the repair shop should have ask the owner to lift it. The tire shop is at fault for screwing around with things they don't know about without permission.

X 2

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Old 07-10-2015, 11:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD788Snipe View Post
Ok here's a nightmare that a friend had to deal with today.
They dropped off their coach at a tire shop to get new tires installed and left to go to lunch. When they came back the shop had used the rig's hydrolic leveling jacks to lift it up off the ground to change tires. The motor for them had been burnt up and 150 amp fuse had been blown and they couldn't get the jacks to retract because the system had been over pressurize. The rig had a Lippert system in it. My question is: Do you think the tire shop is responsible for the damage? In all the owners manuals that I have read it states not to use the leveling system to raise the coach off the ground.
It's a 2009 Safari Cheeta 42PAQ.
DD,
First off, did your friend give the tire company permission to use the jacks to lift the coach, for their tire change operation?

If he did, then it may or may not be the financial responsibility of that tire company to foot the bill for the damage done to the jack system. If he did not give them permission to use them, well then it's more than likely their financial responsibility to pay for the damage. Now, getting them to pay for it may be a whole 'nother story.

Second, as has been stated, the HYDRAULIC (not hydrolic) systems in these coaches, all have safeguards built into them, just for situations like what happened to your buddies. They're called "Relief valves". They are designed to take the over-pressure that's encountered when the pressure of the system, rises to a point at which the max is reached for normal operation. That is, the jacks are designed to run at a maximum pressure for the system. And, the system, pump, valves, jacks, hoses, etc. are all designed to take a certain maximum pressure to operate normally.

But, when that pressure rises beyond the maximum allowed, that's when the RELIEF valve comes into play. It has a set pressure that it will OPEN and, send the over pressurized fluid, back into the reservoir. That way there's no damage to any parts, PUMP, FUSES etc. You see, hydraulic fluid, or any fluid for that matter, is NOT COMPRESSABLE. And, most hydraulic pumps have way more capacity for pressure than the system for which they pump on. That means, once you run up to the limit of the system and all it's components, without a relief valve, some serious damage can result or, even at the very least, some seals can be blown at multiple points.

So, for that tire company to "burn up the pump" in it's effort to raise the coach for a tire change, would be pretty slim. Now, can a relief valve fail? Sure it can. How often, extremely rare. I too would be interested in seeing how all this plays out.
Scott
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