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View Poll Results: Should big rigs be required to have a TPMS?
Yes 21 24.71%
No 64 75.29%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-01-2013, 06:46 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Ramzfan View Post
I think we all agree that proper inflation is very important for both the life of the tires and fuel milage as well. However, mandating the use of a TPMS would be just another rediculous law on the books and would be almost impossible to enforce.
Enforcing isn't a problem because they would not require individuals to install but manufactures. All new products bring produced would come from the factory with them. As a consumer you could simply remove them our choose to not use them as with the already existing passenger car mandates. I don't believe there is any law requiring a person to maintain their tpms.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:37 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by greatlakes View Post
Enforcing isn't a problem because they would not require individuals to install but manufactures. All new products bring produced would come from the factory with them. As a consumer you could simply remove them our choose to not use them as with the already existing passenger car mandates. I don't believe there is any law requiring a person to maintain their tpms.

It's hard to choose not to use them when they are built into the vehicle
(current passenger and light trucks) computer and can't be removed
from the computer.
You can just ignore them, if the annoying flashing warning light on the dash doesn't bother you....

.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:50 AM   #73
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The original question was mandate or no mandate, not use or not use...if they come installed from the manufacturer everyone would be in the same situation as we are with our cars and light trucks. Pay attention not don't pay attention.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:26 PM   #74
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TPMS will never guarantee that trucks won't have blowouts.

So the next questions is... what percentage of blowouts/separation will it prevent. 50%....? 30%...? 10%...? No one can say for sure.

So we're talking about making a law that requires a device that only fixes a percentage of the problem. This only adds a burden to the responsible people as they're the ones who will follow the rules. The irresponsible - and most likely those who neglect their tires - are just going to ignore or skirt by the rule anyway.

More government is not always the right answer.

Model personal responsibility. Be a light for all to see!
You are correct that noone can say for sure what % Blowouts would be prevented but from my experience I believe it is well more than 85 or 90% of "blowouts" are the result of running low inflation. I have conducted tests where we intenionally tried to cause a tire to suffer a rapid air loss from a cut. We used a 2" dia piece of pipe cut on 45 angle with the cut edge sharpened.
Some times the truck would drive right over the pipe but not cut through the tread belts. If we cut the tire it never shredded.

Maybe many who oppose having TPMS would also be opposed to requirements that Heavy truck operators not drive 20 hours a day or not drive while under the influence of alcohol or drugs. While we are at it why do we even require big rig operators have special, or even any drivers license.
Does having laws that require people to have driver licenses prevent all accidents? Nope, but I for one would not want to have anyone that wanted to to jump in any vehicle and head off down the road.

Is't easy to simply oppose any and all regulations simply because you don't like "big government" but would you want to have no regulations on the quality of our food or meds? How about letting anyone be a an airplane pilot simply because they want to.

Where to draw the line is really the question. If people don't do what many believe is reasonable then regulations are about the only way to protect the rest of us from the stupid or lazy or just obstinate.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:46 PM   #75
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You want another law?
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:08 PM   #76
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You want another law?
That depends...do I get to choose the target?
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:15 AM   #77
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You are correct that noone can say for sure what % Blowouts would be prevented but from my experience I believe it is well more than 85 or 90% of "blowouts" are the result of running low inflation. I have conducted tests where we intenionally tried to cause a tire to suffer a rapid air loss from a cut. We used a 2" dia piece of pipe cut on 45 angle with the cut edge sharpened.
Some times the truck would drive right over the pipe but not cut through the tread belts. If we cut the tire it never shredded.

Maybe many who oppose having TPMS would also be opposed to requirements that Heavy truck operators not drive 20 hours a day or not drive while under the influence of alcohol or drugs. While we are at it why do we even require big rig operators have special, or even any drivers license.
Does having laws that require people to have driver licenses prevent all accidents? Nope, but I for one would not want to have anyone that wanted to to jump in any vehicle and head off down the road.

Is't easy to simply oppose any and all regulations simply because you don't like "big government" but would you want to have no regulations on the quality of our food or meds? How about letting anyone be a an airplane pilot simply because they want to.

Where to draw the line is really the question. If people don't do what many believe is reasonable then regulations are about the only way to protect the rest of us from the stupid or lazy or just obstinate.
On the other hand, the last half of the last sentence illustrates the attitude of those that desire to control all aspects of everyones life.


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Old 04-04-2013, 10:27 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Ed-Sommers

On the other hand, the last half of the last sentence illustrates the attitude of those that desire to control all aspects of everyones life.

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Old 04-04-2013, 11:46 AM   #79
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Not to nullify the conversation because the op question was should tpms be required on all large vehicles, but I would think if the government felt the urge to move on this they would most likely require it for manufactures of trucks and trailers and again RVs would probably be exempt.
Even if it covered all large trucks just means you would automatically get it on a new rig. So what's the problem? It may raise the price of your 200k rig by $250 if that.
The general public seems to enjoy the feature on their passenger cars.
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:05 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by greatlakes View Post
Not to nullify the conversation because the op question was should tpms be required on all large vehicles, but I would think if the government felt the urge to move on this they would most likely require it for manufactures of trucks and trailers and again RVs would probably be exempt.
Even if it covered all large trucks just means you would automatically get it on a new rig. So what's the problem? It may raise the price of your 200k rig by $250 if that.
The general public seems to enjoy the feature on their passenger cars.
That would mean that the prices of all goods transported by truck (i.e., EVERYTHING) would go up as well. As has already been stated, tractors swap out trailers constantly. All the additional "reprogramming" of TPMS to make them viable would be a headache. More money, more time. And in the end, who pays?? We do.
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:10 PM   #81
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On the other hand, the last half of the last sentence illustrates the attitude of those that desire to control all aspects of everyones life.

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Ed, That's not my goal or desire. I am basically Libertarian. The problem comes when someone else exercises their "Freedom" and their actions result in damage, injury or death of someone else.

Are you suggesting we should do away with regulations on drunk driving? How about eliminating the limits on lead in paint? After all its easier and less expensive to use lead to make paint. Maybe having no regs on truck load limits?

It isn't easy to know when to stop with regulations but if there is a tire blowout because the driver chose to ignore the warning does that mean it is just too bad if the rig ran head on into a car, killing the child passenger? How is that different than having a driver chose to not have a TPMS ie make a reasonable effort to prevent most blowouts and that driver kills someone?

It would be nice if people were actually responsible and took reasonable actions to prevent or at least minimize negative consequence of their activities but human nature seems to be to resist doing things differently even if the cost is minimal and the potential benefit is great.

I have provided expert testimony in a fatal accident where the condition of the tires was used as part of the complaint against the vehicle owner.
Do you think the vehicle owner should be held responsible for his actions? And just how to you make things right for the family of the deceased?
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:26 PM   #82
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That would mean that the prices of all goods transported by truck (i.e., EVERYTHING) would go up as well. As has already been stated, tractors swap out trailers constantly. All the additional "reprogramming" of TPMS to make them viable would be a headache. More money, more time. And in the end, who pays?? We do.
I agree as its evident in new car prices. You can't compare a new mustang to a 60s mustang. The new cars have so many more requirements they have to meet. systems for safety and environment. Not to mention options that you couldn't get 50 years ago.
However if a mandate was passed the first step would be establishing a standard. So all sensors would work with all receivers to accommodate the trailer swapping. It would not require reprogramming and I doubt it would have much of an effect on what consumers pay for stuff. As that extra $250 divided out over the life of the truck and all the material it hauls would equate to fractions of a cent. The price of diesel would have a bigger effect.
Not to mention if tpms saved a driver just 1mpg in one year that would be $5556 @100k miles a year. So if you only drive 10k miles a yr you'd save $555 more than double the cost.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:26 AM   #83
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Thanks for providing the information. Even though it is dated it does provide some good information however it does not support your claim of "thousands", and it discusses ALL road debris not just tire failures and a number of those failures were re-treads coming apart. Would a TPMS have identified this before hand...or the driver doing a proper tire inspection?


From the study I cited:

Crashes. The number of crashes caused by tire debris has also been
investigated. The Florida Center for Solid and Hazardous Waste Management
(1998), as part of its annual litter study, identified vehicle and tire debris as the
most common litter item on Florida roadsides from 1994 to 1997. The Center
also reported that the number of crashes caused by tire debris in Florida rose
from 648 in 1993 to 931 in 1996. The source of the crash data is not provided,
however.

This is for one state, Florida. It includes, as I mentioned, ONLY crashes. It does not include the deaths and damage caused by the blowouts themselves, only the debris. It also does not include damaged vehicles not involved in crashes but which suffer undercarriage and body damage as a result of striking treads.

Now, combining the above numbers for one state, and using a little horse sense, one should be able to determine that *nationwide* the number if damaged vehicles is easily in the thousands, every year.



I have driven these roads for many years but I must admit that I was not on a motorcycle so maybe there is a difference. I see as much broken furniture and other items on the road side as I see tire treads. I see more people dodging rocks falling off trucks than I do tire debris. If I was on a motorcycle I would be more worried about a rock, that is difficult to see, hitting me in the face than tire debris that I can see.

I understand that you are passionate about this subject but I am an engineer and I deal with data to make my decisions. And from what I read from this report I do not see the data that would warrant a nationwide mandate to install these devices on RV's or large commercial trucks. In addition, I question the current TPMS technology as a way to fix the limited numbers of tire failures that we contributed to over/under inflation, etc. that a TPMS is designed to detect. My fear would be that many would depend too much on these devices and ignore their tire inspection and maintenance even more then they do now.

I searched the NTSB WEB site and found only a few cases where they referenced tire pressure as a "contributing" factor to loss of control/life. A motor coach in Texas (2008) but also pointed to a poorly maintained bridge and occupants not using seat belts or not enough seat belts for the number of passengers. The other was also in Texas where a 15 passenger van lost control/life but clearly stated that the TPMS would not of prevented the blowout because the van was overloaded based on the pressure in the tire. www.ntsb.gov/doclib/recletters/2003/h03_12_17.pdf

Like I have been stating all along we have humans in the mix and you can't legislate "stupid" out of existence (reference the FedEx drive that started this thread). If the technology was 100% full proof and came factory installed I would not ignore it's warning but I would still inspect and do all other tire maintenance that I currently do.
We are talking about apples and oranges here, at least partially. I am talking about ALL damage related to failures possibly preventable with reliable TPMS aboard. While this would include fatalities suffered as a result of catastrophic tire failure and consequent loss-of-control/crashes, it would in no way constitute the majority the danger to others. I include, as do the authors of the study, damage or crashes caused by gators in the road. Not all damage done to vehicles as a result of hitting these things result in accident reports filed. The data used by Forbes and Robinson only included accidents for which some form of report was filed.

25000 accidents per year and 81-90 fatalities occur as a result of VRRD. (see page 90 of the cited report)

Wheels, tires, and tire treads cause the most VRRD crashes. (see page 69 of the cited report)

So, again, I stand by my claim.

Moreover, we haven't really even gotten into the taxpayer costs associated with crews having to get the things out of the roadway. The police time, the maintenance crews, etc. And we haven't even gotten into the public safety aspects of having overheated, underinflated, tires, under heavy loads, exploding nearby other vehicles. This is of considerable importance to the safety of other motorists, and yes, doubly-so for those on motorcycles. But since we pay taxes too, and all of us pay the crews and police who have to respond to all the tire carcasses on the road, I can imagine myself at least considering the wisdom of mandating TPM systems on heavy vehicles, particularly heavily-loaded trucks. All of this would mostly hinge, at least in my opinion, on whether it could be shown that TPMS technology was suitable and effective, and could be demonstrated to lessen the likelihood of catastrophic tire failure/blowouts.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:42 AM   #84
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Having driven semi and dump trucks and experiencing a blow out. It would be very easy to run a tire low our even flat and not know it. Even if a tire is falling apart you may not feel anything or hear anything. So with tpms not only monitoring psi some warn of high temp which would also be good. It would have prevented the blow out I experienced. I knew when it happened because it sounded like a bomb. The elderly couple in the car next to me almost ended up in the median. It was so loud the other truck in route that was 1/4 mile ahead of me pulled over because he thought he blew a tire.

I also received a flat on my car one time from the steel belts of an alligator that I ran over. Nothing was ever reported to police so in cases like that no data is probably available.
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