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Old 10-01-2014, 08:04 PM   #15
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Great dialog. Thanks for sharing your selection thought processes.
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Old 10-01-2014, 08:14 PM   #16
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OP, you should be able to get a Dutch Star for $250,000 or so since 25% to 28% off is the norm although I did see someone claim they got 31% off. Although you would have to not load it up with the self adjusting steps and power shades. I haven't seen a DSDP go up to $400,000 ($288,000 after discount) yet.
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Old 10-01-2014, 08:22 PM   #17
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When we were looking, DW had the say on floorplan and interior amenities. I wanted a Cummins ISL with a two stage Jake brake, side radiator and a chassis with good handling characteristics.

We found what we wanted and both of us are happy!
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:03 PM   #18
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Mr. D

That would be nice, I think MSRP on the base 2015 DS is 361K, unlike Entegra and Tuscany this is fairly bare bones which is not all that bad as you add what you want. So self adjusting steps are out, maybe motorized shades too. But there are some got to haves. In going through the options list these items, for me, totaled around 40K so to make this happen I will be looking at a minimum of 28% and then if I can get some factory money thrown in or a more aggressive discount I would certainly go for the DS over the Tuscany. Right now RV One is probably one of the few dealers out there that might take an aggressive position. Hey, if I choose factory delivery which I would buying from RV One they are just moving paper. However, there is also whatever agreement they have in place with Newmar with regard to price structure... and the more I think about it the more it looks like my check book and airline tickets will have me heading to Tampa.

If the stock market keeps up with the crap from today, mine and a lot of other peoples nest egg will have us all looking at the Berkshire and Sportscoach Funny, these are where we started, and may not be a bad thing.

Always the 2 dollars I play in the lottery too.

Regards,

Jim

Regards,

Jim


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OP, you should be able to get a Dutch Star for $250,000 or so since 25% to 28% off is the norm although I did see someone claim they got 31% off. Although you would have to not load it up with the self adjusting steps and power shades. I haven't seen a DSDP go up to $400,000 ($288,000 after discount) yet.
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Old 10-02-2014, 06:51 AM   #19
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I like to tinker around and a rear radiator would be a deal breaker for me. A simple belt change with a rear radiator could take hours with a side radiator 20 min. Nice to open up the back and be able to look around.
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Old 10-02-2014, 09:51 AM   #20
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I like to tinker around and a rear radiator would be a deal breaker for me. A simple belt change with a rear radiator could take hours with a side radiator 20 min. Nice to open up the back and be able to look around.
+1

I'm with Mike, I like to do my own maint.
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Old 10-02-2014, 10:04 AM   #21
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on this thread I wanted to initially leave brands out of the discussion. There have been some very interesting and at least to me accurate comments.

I realized that the delta in price accounts for more than the rear vs side radiator. Here is my dilemma. When I look at the Thor Tuscany it has the 450HP, IFS, but a rear radiator. I know that many will jump all over Thor's quality and I have read many a post that support that criticism including the article in MH Magazine. I really like the Thor floor plan for the 45AT & 44MT. What is really appealing is that it can be purchased around 260 to 270 which puts it 30 to 40K less then the Newmar and almost 50 to 60K less than the Anthem. Besides the rear radiator the real problem I have with the Tuscany is the very high gloss finish on the wood work.

Now as I read the forums Entegra it seems is not without its' quality issues. Newmar's DSDP on the other hand does not have the same level of complaints and I believe of the three has the best rep as from a quality POV. The DS has IFS the same 450HP and Transmission. Great wood work and floor plan and Newmar told me that they can upgrade the batteries to Glass Mat for 810 dollars and add the Advantium for about 1500 dollars as well. The other thing that I like is that the floor plan is available at 43'. Hey not a biggy, but does appeal to me. Newmar also offers factory delivery so I feel more confident buying from the lowest dealer quote as once I take delivery and go through the PDI the actual dealer does not factor into the equation like Entegra and Thor. It does look like the Newmar will fit the budget. I think the 4369 with the must have options will come in around 300 to 305K and therefore putting it way less than the Anthem < 35k and more than the Tuscan > 30 - 35K. So as it stands right now Newmar is in the lead and I have gone back to my financial advisor to find another 30 to 40K.

The dark horse in all of this in the American Coach Rev. My thought is that from a quality standpoint it is right up there with the Newmar offer and better then Tuscany and Entegra, Same offer for factory delivery, but it seems that the dealers handling American are more capable with regard to factory delivery. I guess what I am saying here is I would not be as concerned to take factory delivery from Tom Johnson vs say RV Direct. The basements in the Revolution have a significant increase in height and the 30 inch slides are huge and open. The one issue I have is that the interior height is less, so much so, that a bedroom ceiling fan is not a readily available option and there is no storage above the bed.

Thanks to all of you that stayed with this ramble. I do write it for some input on my thought process, but also write as it helps me think it through. Hey, maybe Thor will read it and kill the gloss on the cabinets ( one of the things I will ask them anyway ) or a Newmar dealer will read it and add a couple of points more on the discount line.

We are going to need to order vs. finding something on the lot so I am working to finalize things so that a May or June 2015 delivery is possible.

Regards,

Jim

Just as an after thought, I have also considered the Aspire and Ventana. The Aspire is out as it does not have IFS and the wheel cut is 50 degrees. The Ventana has a solid front axle, but does have a 55 degree wheel cut, but again the rear radiator. So if the budget rears its' ugly head the Tuscany wins against these other two. Well maybe not the Ventana, but certainly the Aspire.
Not nit picking just a correction the Aspire is a 55 degree wheel cut and the Tuscany is a 60 degree wheel cut
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Old 10-02-2014, 10:12 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by mike brez View Post
I like to tinker around and a rear radiator would be a deal breaker for me. A simple belt change with a rear radiator could take hours with a side radiator 20 min. Nice to open up the back and be able to look around.
X2, doing my pre trip servicing, I flashed up the Cat, only to hear the growl of a roller bearing going out; belt tensioner pulley ; total repair time , including drive to NAPA for the part, 1 hour. Actual time with wrenches in hand 10 mins.
Coach with rear rad, deal breaker as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 10-02-2014, 05:02 PM   #23
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You made me go back and check on the wheel cut, they have raise it from 50 to 52. Not considering your post nit picky at all, actually I can't believe you read it all the way down to the PS ;-)

Not sure how big a deal 52 vs. 55 really is and I would certainly take 52 over 60 degrees to get a side radiator. Just too many other things on the Aspire that move me more toward the DS. That could change.

2015 Aspire Standards & Options
  • Chassis Equipment

  • (2) chassis batteries
  • 10-gallon DEF tank
  • 100-gal. fuel tank (dual fill)
  • 15,000-lb. hitch with 7-pin plug
  • 170-amp alternator
  • 4.88 "Quiet Gear" rear axle ratio
  • 52-degree wheel cut
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Old 10-02-2014, 07:22 PM   #24
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Virtually all the higher end MHs have side radiators.
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Old 10-02-2014, 07:54 PM   #25
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I had a rear radiator Monaco and now a side radiator Dutch Star. I do all of my own servicing. The Monaco was never that tough to service, but I never had to do a fan belt. The radiator went bad in year 6 and I had to remove the center of the rear bumper, CAC and then radiator. After that I walked into the engine compartment and replaced the hoses and belt while it was apart.

I now have a side radiator Dutch Star that will get it's first service tomorrow. It will be nice to not have to mess with the protective screen under the engine, and be able to access EVERYTHING from the engine doors. I still dread having to get under the coach to lube, but coaches are the same in that aspect.

Monaco stacked their CAC on top of the radiator, rather than in front, which made it cool better and easier to keep clean. That said, I wouldn't dissuade anyone from buying a rear radiator, but my must haves on a new coach included the side radiator. The coach was more expensive because of the side radiator, but t also came with other components the rear radiator doesn't, like a two stage engine brake, power locking bay doors and many other upgrades.

A good example of this is the difference between a Newmar Dutch Star and their Ventana. The Ventana is a rear radiator, 50 HP less and missing several other items the Dutch Star has.
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Old 10-02-2014, 08:17 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by mike brez View Post
I like to tinker around and a rear radiator would be a deal breaker for me. A simple belt change with a rear radiator could take hours with a side radiator 20 min. Nice to open up the back and be able to look around.
MY XCS chassis has rear radiator, serpentine belt change takes 15 minutes (the 2nd time, --and I'm a slow learner..) You do realize the belts are only changed at about 7 year intervals.... Routine maintenance on a rear radiator engine has not been a problem..

If you choose a bigger engine/bigger coach it will probably come with the side radiator .... that's the choice..
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Old 10-02-2014, 10:06 PM   #27
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MY XCS chassis has rear radiator, serpentine belt change takes 15 minutes (the 2nd time, --and I'm a slow learner..) You do realize the belts are only changed at about 7 year intervals.... Routine maintenance on a rear radiator engine has not been a problem..

If you choose a bigger engine/bigger coach it will probably come with the side radiator .... that's the choice..
You realize there is much more back there that makes a side radiator easier to work on than just belts. Ooh wait you can't see what's back there with a rear radiator. ROTFLMAO. Also prefer not to be working on my engine on my back or in my bedroom. Also not shure about you need a bigger engine/ bigger coach to get a side radiator. My little 36 footer with a baby 330 has a side radiator.
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Old 10-03-2014, 03:18 AM   #28
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Another consideration should be labor costs over time to service both the rear and side radiator units. Working on these daily I can tell you from firsthand experience that being able to access the most common and not so common items for maintenance and repair that my time can be as much as 1/2 accessing the side radiator units as compared to the rear mounted units. Also generally less intrusive into the bedroom. I hear stories of people on the road whom have problems and many shops shudder when they see a motorhome roll in on the hook, but are relieved knowing it's a rear radiator unit.
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