Small Class A Diesel Not Worth Sacrifices?

[gemini5362]

Before we bought our tiffin we looked at a new serrano. when we took it for a test drive we could barely hear each other over the engine at idle. When I started acceleration on the road we could not hear each other talking. I drove it to the first turn around and went back. With the DP you do not have that.

I do not know what kind of fuel some people use but I want to get it. I drove from Arkansas to california, up the coast and then back. This trip was around 5000 miles. I recorded mileage, amount of gas purchased, price per gallon. I was pulling a fairly large vehicle a 2012 buick enclave. I got 5.6 miles per gallon on the trip. I did not accelerate hard when I took off. I drove 65 on interstate. I am sure a smaller towed vehicle would increase that a little bit but I do not see any way I would ever see 6. I have the ISL cummins with allison 6 speed.

I am going to agree with the 40 foot 5 year old but I might say 5 to 10 year old DP. I have a 38 foot with two slides. I would like to have the extra room for a love seat or two chairs opposite the couch on the 38 ft we have a chair on one side and a couch on the other. 4 slides might be nicer depends on what mood I am in that day whether I would like to have them or not. Relatives that have had a MH longer than I have when they saw mine for the first time made a comment how they liked the two slide because with their 4 slide they almost always had to walk off of the RV pad to walk back to their car and had to walk on dirt or gravel versus a concret pad if they were somewhere that had one. When I go to get stuff from storage that is on the side where the slides are I think how glad I am not to have two slides on the passenger side because I pack all the items we use the most over there and I do not have to crawl under a slide to get it out.

I mentioned getting a bit older than 5 years. 5 year old coaches are still pretty pricey. I bought a 2005 in 2012 it only had 39000 miles on it. in 2013 I looked at a 2007 coach, I bought mine it was 7 years old and this one was 6 when I looked at it. it was 42 foot and 4 slides. had 29000 miles on it. so less miles, they wanted my coach and another 100,000 dollars to trade. I know there is a price difference on 4 slide versus 2 and longer but still a huge difference for effectively one year newer coach. The coaches were both Allegro Bus and interestingly enough both had the same paint scheme.

[davidahn]

Originally Posted by jimmyjnr

...Buy used and try to limit losses on trade

Definitely leaning 90% toward a lightly used coach, 2-5 y/o at 25-45% off new.

Originally Posted by bertnspike

David, I full time in a 36' (w/3 slide outs) coach. ...It is quite comfortable for 2 people, but the third rainy day in a row might be a little tense. ...If your wife wants a washer and dryer and space, she needs to go big... Tell her also that a 62 year old widow told you this and the old lady said that it's fun to drive too!

Thanks for the perspective! We'll see how she feels about the 22' Class C rental. I may be able to convince her with a one-two punch of more space and quality construction/finishes.

Originally Posted by Christian51

You got to chuckle when you read of people going through the same thing you are. I started out looking at small RVs... What if, what if, what if... Hey, who am I to argue? I'm willing to blow my last buck on a 45 foot mobile condo if she is. :-)

I'll definitely push the safety angle as well; my wife is quite safety-minded. Refuses to let me take flying lessons unless I up my life insurance to $5M.

Originally Posted by Peralko

I thought the smaller Diesels like the Serrano and Palazzo were pretty neat with the better mileage so I took the wife to see them. She went: " You want me to give up our motorhome for this?", and that was the end of our look at those. So instead of downgrading, we are waiting for the right 42-45 foot Country Coach to come along.

It's cool that a lot of you here have the advantage of hindsight... I'm trying to talk my wife into buying our third RV first... it's tough to get her mind to skip the intermediate steps!

[davidahn]

Originally Posted by gemini5362

Before we bought our tiffin we looked at a new serrano.... we could not hear each other talking.

I do not know what kind of fuel some people use but I want to get it. ...I got 5.6 miles per gallon on the trip...

...I have a 38 foot with two slides. ...with their 4 slide they almost always had to walk off of the RV pad to walk back to their car and had to walk on dirt or gravel versus a concret pad if they were somewhere that had one.

I've heard FREDs are loud at idle but quiet when cruising, but despite the quietness at speed, I'd still like a pusher for quiet ALL the time!

As for magic fuel, I've seen two 40+ foot pusher owners claim 10+ MPG, with one proposed explanation from an Entegra owner being that big engines have enough torque to cruise at low RPMs without working hard. I hope they're right!

It's all about what tradeoffs we're willing to make: what we have to have, what we can give up, how much space is just right, how much is too much (if there is such a thing?), etc. A lot to ponder!

[akeyzoo]

I think folks legitimately get 10MPG+. I do not, at least yet, but I can easily get 8-9. One key item to remember is that you are pushing a brick and wind resistance on flat ground is what you are fighting, and it increases exponentially with MPH. There is a BIG difference in instantaneous fuel economy at 55 and 65. Caterpillar had a great article on this describing their engines in motorhome applications (try search, cant remember where I found it)..

BTW, with my class C rental back in the day it was hilarious how affected the rig was by the wind. Hilarious in hindsight, wasn't funny at the time with white knuckles. Crosswinds blew me all over the place and there were times (it was very windy granted) that on I5 near bakersfield I could NOT exceed 50MPH no matter how hard I stabbed the accelerator. I was probably getting 2MPG at the time at best!

Sooo, whilst the class C may give you an idea of the lifestyle or concept and be used as a tool to get a DP, don't let the class c experience sour you altogether if it affects your enjoyment.

[garbonz]

Originally Posted by road dogs

Have you considered a 5th wheel? We went from a pop-up to a small 27' fifth wheel to a 31' fifth wheel. I get an honest ~low 11 to ~mid 12 mpg and we have plenty of room for two, sometimes three + three small dogs. I spent about three months trying to figure out what would work best for us- MH, TT or 5th wheel and the fiver won. If I had it to do again, I would still choose the 5W. Just something to consider......

X2. Unless you are camping ALOT, I think the fiver is the way to go. Then you got an extra vehicle (pickup) that you can loan to everybody and wonder where all the dents come from. Sure makes you popular with the neighbors and family members...

[csrrsr]

Our daughter bought a 16' Bambi new (you wouldn't believe the price on those things..$40,000 +) despite my pleas to her inter conscious with many pros and cons and side by side statitics vs. other types of RV's including class A"s. She loves it and is a camping fool. But I know down the road her two little boys will outgrow it and she'll have to move up. Such is the way of the human creature. It would be nice to jump right up to the final RV of our lives. Think of the money we could've saved and not only on RV's? But then we wouldn't have the wisdom to pass along to our kids.....who won't listen to us anyway!

[Whatnobeer]

Originally Posted by csrrsr

Our daughter bought a 16' Bambi new (you wouldn't believe the price on those things..$40,000 +) despite my pleas to her inter conscious with many pros and cons and side by side statitics vs. other types of RV's including class A"s. She loves it and is a camping fool. But I know down the road her two little boys will outgrow it and she'll have to move up. Such is the way of the human creature. It would be nice to jump right up to the final RV of our lives. Think of the money we could've saved and not only on RV's? But then we wouldn't have the wisdom to pass along to our kids.....who won't listen to us anyway!

The misses and I are in our mid to late 40's and we already decided on a coach, how much we can afford, how big it's going to be and what we are going to do with it. It's going to be a few years before we buy it, but we've already done our research and heard some great to not-so-great stories here on iRV2 so we know what to look for. We decided the go big or go home scenario was for us. We're looking at the Entegras and are saving our pennies (more like Franklins) to make it real. We wanted size and comfort and decided to wait until we can easily afford what we want rather than up-scaling every few years. With us it will be one and done. We love the idea of being able to have a rolling condo on wheels and enjoy all the creature comforts. To us the biggest things are:

1. Can we live in it all the time and not run into each other
2. Does it have all the amenities we like(washer/dryer, residential fridge, TV's everywhere, etc...)
3. And to us the biggest one is can we afford the coach and all the other things that go with the lifestyle on what we expect to have for retirement.

We constantly run numbers to make sure we are headed in the right direction. I think with most of these purchases, buy the best thing you can afford and can live with, without making huge sacrifices. We found that a 42' or larger DP was the way to go for us and we both agreed on it. Compromise is also important.

[davidahn]

Originally Posted by akeyzoo

I think folks legitimately get 10MPG+. I do not, at least yet, but I can easily get 8-9. One key item to remember is that you are pushing a brick and wind resistance on flat ground is what you are fighting, and it increases exponentially with MPH. There is a BIG difference in instantaneous fuel economy at 55 and 65. Caterpillar had a great article on this describing their engines in motorhome applications (try search, cant remember where I found it)..

Sooo, whilst the class C may give you an idea of the lifestyle or concept and be used as a tool to get a DP, don't let the class c experience sour you altogether if it affects your enjoyment.

My wife loves tent camping, I'm more of a 4-5 star hotel camper, so a small RV is her idea of a middle ground. So if she feels cramped in a Class C, I don't think it'll turn her off to the lifestyle, it should just move her in the direction of accepting the idea of a larger Class A.

But going back to fuel efficiency, I wonder if the bigger engines with massive low end torque end up more fuel efficient by revving lower at cruising speeds? I wonder if the gear ratios are set differently based on the torque to weight ratio? Total conjecture but makes logical sense.

[tcopeland]

Originally Posted by davidahn

I'm trying to research our options (too many choices) for an RV. My wife wants a 16' Bambi or a popup trailer (so cramped!), but I've got my eye on a 45' diesel pusher. My wife doesn't want a huge monstrosity... I do. But being frugal/cheap, I figured a small FRED or small DP with promises of 12-14 MPG would be a win-win (Avanti claims 14.3, Tiffin claims 12-14, Newmar more realistic at 8-9): I get better fuel economy, my wife gets a smaller coach.

So I was hoping to get something along the lines of Damon's claims of "80% better fuel economy." (Ha.) But as I research fuel efficiency on iRV2, I'm finding users mostly reporting 9-10 MPG on their small diesels (Breeze, Avanti, Vesta), not too much better than much larger coaches getting 7.5-8.5 (especially with Banks kits). So now I'm thinking why give up on space, luxury, and power for a lousy 10-20% better economy? I'm wondering if a 40' tag axle DP is the sweet spot for power, ride quality, spaciousness?

Any sage advice would be welcome! Please be gentle with me... I'm just learning and trying to narrow down my options. Thanks in advance!

David

Learned the hard way; Buy your last coach first!
Love our Palazzo.......!

[davidahn]

Originally Posted by garbonz

X2. Unless you are camping ALOT, I think the fiver is the way to go. Then you got an extra vehicle (pickup) that you can loan to everybody and wonder where all the dents come from. Sure makes you popular with the neighbors and family members...

Thanks! The 5er is not completely out of the running, as it is one of my wife's faves.

[wigginsjsr]

You will have to decide if you want to camp or RV. My opinon only, but you need a 5th wheel or a class A to go Rving.

[davidahn]

Originally Posted by csrrsr

Our daughter bought a 16' Bambi new (you wouldn't believe the price on those things..$40,000 +) despite my pleas to her inter conscious with many pros and cons and side by side statitics vs. other types of RV's including class A"s. She loves it and is a camping fool. But I know down the road her two little boys will outgrow it and she'll have to move up. Such is the way of the human creature. It would be nice to jump right up to the final RV of our lives. Think of the money we could've saved and not only on RV's? But then we wouldn't have the wisdom to pass along to our kids.....who won't listen to us anyway!

I think 39-45 foot Class A owners tend to think EVERYONE really wants or will eventually want a large DP, but I believe there's diversity in people. I believe there are pop-up trailer people, Airstream folk, fifth-wheeler people, and Class A types, maybe Class B/C types. I believe everyone has an RV sweet spot and feel comfortable in 16, 22, 25, 32, 36, 40, or 45 foot RVs, hence the stories of people who downsize! Sure, there are many who buy less than what they want for financial reasons (up front or operating costs), but it's a matter of finding out what kind of RVer you are. I also think there are some (like me) who gravitate toward the 45' tag axle 3 bed 3 bath bad boys simply because they're "the best," and not for any real evidence that that's what we would need!

[davidahn]

Originally Posted by Whatnobeer

The misses and I are in our mid to late 40's... We decided the go big or go home scenario was for us. ...We wanted size and comfort and decided to wait until we can easily afford what we want rather than up-scaling every few years. With us it will be one and done. We love the idea of being able to have a rolling condo on wheels and enjoy all the creature comforts.

I'm trying to sell my wife on the condo on wheels concept, never having to find a nice pet-friendly hotel, not having to move from hotel to hotel (unpacking, packing, etc.). I'm in my mid 40s, my wife in her mid-30s, trying to retire in the next 5 years, though we have no illusions of full-timing!

You're lucky you're on the same page on the RV thing... and odd. Usually hubby wants one thing, wife wants something else, and eventually you compromise and do what your wife wants.

[davidahn]

Originally Posted by tcopeland

Learned the hard way; Buy your last coach first!
Love our Palazzo.......!

Kinda reminds me of the saying about lost items: "It's always in the last place you look." Why not look in the last place first? :P By definition it's always in the last place you look; why would you keep looking once you find it?

Believe me, I'm trying to buy my last coach first, but encountering resistance. Plus, it's a great idea if it worked out that way, but most people refuse to learn from the mistakes of others!