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Old 03-11-2011, 02:55 PM   #43
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Air to air

Quote:
Originally Posted by wa8yxm View Post
Let's look at the cost of SOME of those items.

CONSERVATION-RECYCLE GREY WATER DOUBLE USE TOILETS

Basically a 2nd water pump and a few feet of PEX.. Not much there


ENERGY- AIR TO AIR HEAT EXCHANGER

I'm nto sure what this is less they mean a heat pump, and many rigs have that already


POWER- 240/120 VOLT GENERATORS STANDARD-SLOW SPEED (1800 RPM) MODELS

The standard Onan Generator in most motor homes can be ordered in this configuration, no extra cost, zero, zip, in fact I don't know why it's not already that way.

CONSERVATION / APPEARANCE- HIDDEN WIPERS

I'm not sure I'd want this.. but a device to automatically lift the wipers off the windshield would be nice.

CONVENIENCE- USABLE ROOF RACKS CLASS A'S

A few dollars however there are other concents.. I only have 12 inches of "Clearance" between the top of my air conditioner and the legal height limit on my coach, some have more, some less.

CONSERVATION- TANKLESS/INSTANT HOT WATER

One to two hundred dollars more than the common ATTWOOD 6 Gallon

CONSERVATION- AERODYNAMIC ENHANCEMENTS MOLDED INTO BODY

I thin he is talking about the "Air Tabs" and the cost of molding them into the coach is zero.. absolutly zero.


CONSERVATION- LOGIC CONTROLLED CRUISE CONTROL VS SPEED
CONTROLLED --INTEGRATED WITH FUEL MANAGEMENT SYSTEM

No cost, or very low cost. Just a change in software.

ENERGY/CONVENIENCE- MAGNETIC INDUCTION COOKTOPS

No, I don't want that, requires you have electricity to cook the current gas cooktop works without electrical power.

So many of these improvements would cost very little. and a few of them nothing but a mind change at the designer's or the stroke of a pen.

Good comment.

About the air to air heat exchanger. You will find multiple good descriptions by me about these devices which have been left out of motorhomes. It is, for me, a mystery how motorhome manufacturers cannot include this vital feature in motorhomes. Not even Foretravel lists an air to air heat exchanger. It's pure ignorance on their part. These devices have been around for a very long time. Motorhomes are too tight and are causing problems which should not exist.

Please don't confuse this device with your heat pump. It is not even close.

To find out what I'm talking about do a word search with my username. Use the words "heat exchanger". Everything you need as an explanation has been entered by me. Every single motorhome should be equipped with this.

This is now the best one to use.
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Old 03-26-2011, 09:39 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seajay View Post
Ok..... I will type slow because this can get confusing and I havent seen it suggested yet.

One. Install a queen size Murphey Bed in the back of your coach.... (easy)

TWO. Use the available technology used in some of the better ''slides'' already in usage on our coaches and make a slide on the ''BACK'' of the coach that would extend out about six feet from the back of the coach. By doing this we could SHORTEN OUR COACHES BY AT LEAST FIVE FEET. The slide would be solid like my living room slide and not made out of canvas like on the trailers I have seen. To close the slide you raise the Murphey bed and secure it to the wall and ''SLIDE THE REAR END OF THE COACH FORWARD'' just like my living room slide works now. When you stop to camp, SLIDE THE BACK OF THE COACH OUT, LET DOWN THE MURPHEY BED and you are ''home'' again.
Three.... Advantage........ The motor home could be made shorter and lighter with all the convenience of a queen walk around we now have.
Dis advantage.... No bed to lay down on while you are traveling.

If you use this great idea you will have to pay me ten cents and you can pay me the next time you see me..

God bless our troops and bring them home real soon......
Excellent idea!!! It's doable, too.
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Old 03-27-2011, 09:43 AM   #45
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I have long wondered why some enterprising maker of coaches, 5vers, TT's hasn't come out with this idea. I suspect if would interfere with the bath, or would be difficult to support weight wise on the rear of the RV. We have set around the patio down in Florida and kicked this idea around for years, yet no one seems to ever offer it.
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Old 03-27-2011, 12:25 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seajay View Post
Ok..... I will type slow because this can get confusing and I havent seen it suggested yet.

One. Install a queen size Murphey Bed in the back of your coach.... (easy)

TWO. Use the available technology used in some of the better ''slides'' already in usage on our coaches and make a slide on the ''BACK'' of the coach that would extend out about six feet from the back of the coach. By doing this we could SHORTEN OUR COACHES BY AT LEAST FIVE FEET. The slide would be solid like my living room slide and not made out of canvas like on the trailers I have seen. To close the slide you raise the Murphey bed and secure it to the wall and ''SLIDE THE REAR END OF THE COACH FORWARD'' just like my living room slide works now. When you stop to camp, SLIDE THE BACK OF THE COACH OUT, LET DOWN THE MURPHEY BED and you are ''home'' again.
Three.... Advantage........ The motor home could be made shorter and lighter with all the convenience of a queen walk around we now have.
Dis advantage.... No bed to lay down on while you are traveling.

If you use this great idea you will have to pay me ten cents and you can pay me the next time you see me..

God bless our troops and bring them home real soon......
I can see several reasons why this would be a problem to implement. If you have a slide mechanism that extends out five to 6 feet that total length of the entire slide unit would probably have to be two to three times as long to bear the load safely. It would also have to be a much beefier mechanism due to the load imposed on it by its length. This would apply not only to the slides but also to the rollers and locking mechanism. More and larger of each, and added weight because of this. Since this weight is entirely in the rear of the coach what does this do to the weight load on your rear axle ?

Let's also think of the stresses on the locking mechanism during normal use. The only stress that would be applies on side slides are the centrifugal forces applied during a turn, or extra stresses when extending or retracting when not level. The first is constrained by the locking mechanism and the second is easily avoided.

Now imagine you have this long rear slide. You BETTER have that puppy level when you extend/retract, but that is the easy one. The hard one - imagine the stresses on the locking mechanism when you are going up that 7% grade we mention so often. Then imagine the result of a locking mechanism failure in this type coach. You are driving a 15~20 ton vehicle up a steep grade when several tons of your weight slides violently backwards five to six feet - if you are lucky ! If you are not lucky it breaks free of your coach, you loose control, and your "bedroom" takes out two or three vehicles behind you including that nice young family of five in the minivan.

I know that I would not want to own a unit of this design due to the possible liability due to failure.
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Old 03-27-2011, 05:34 PM   #47
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hard sided rear slide is already in a few towables.
maybe 5 feet is optimistic, but i think its very doable engineering wise
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Old 03-27-2011, 07:37 PM   #48
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A Demonstration of a MURPHY BED IDEA

This is going on my list to demonstrate the murphy bed concept. My next post will be the link to a murphy bedded "little" motorhome.

This is my motorhome down to the fractional inch. This is not some smoke and mirrors modification.

Notice my slide with my bed attached. When the slide comes in my bedroom is useless. Even the cabinets on the opposite wall are useless. When I walk around the bed on "my" side, I have to turn sideways to do so. This design stinks and has no imagination. Yes, we bought it but now we know better. I did not even start optimizing the bathroom yet. Two doors? For what?

The ORIGINAL PLAN:


This is my revised plan. It includes a murphy bed with a sofa (not showing) underneath. The murphy cabinet is on the rear wall. Our wardrobe including a double stack of drawers below is now in the slide. Notice something really significant. I include a full size washer dryer in the corner of the bedroom with a cabinet surround. Try to find a place for any washer dryer in the original plan. I havn't even included all the cabinets possible. We can use this ROOM as a den, study, sewing room etc. Only our imagination is our limit. There's even room for my little wood burning stove! Cozy.

This is my point. The motorhome companies are missing out by not making multiple uses for space. I see too many designs where you sometimes have to squeeze by to get to a bathroom when the slides are in.

The NEW PLAN (not even complete)




A correction on the bed. We use a full size bed not a queen. The width is narrower but the length is the same. That's how a washer can fit. We have had this size bed our entire married lives together. The washer dryer idea works for us.
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Old 03-27-2011, 07:44 PM   #49
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This is a link to Leisure Travel Vans Unity murphy bed model. The one we think is the best has the U shaped dinette instead of the recliners, includes the murphy bed but that's just us. This is, in my opinion, too small for us but demonstates a wiser use of space. A walk around bed in a B motorhome. Pretty neat.

Leisure Travel Vans - Unity - Overview
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:35 AM   #50
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The Damon Outlaw 3612 did have a Murphy Bed installed as a standard feature until the 2010 model line came out. As far as I have been able to determine they eliminated that feature when the added the optional W/D connections to the drivers side wall and added a second (rear) door to the garage area. For most users that was probably a good upgrade because it added more room for toys and usable space. But IMHO they should have allowed the option to add the Murphy Bed so that those of us that liked it could have made our own choice. But, that's just me.
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:37 AM   #51
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About 4 items: 1. Floor Heat, 2. Aerodynamics, 3. Double pane windows vents, and 4. Roof Racks:
1. My Damon Outlaw has the anti-freeze ducts in the floor for the bins and garage...keeps much of the floor very comfy when it's very cold. Don't know if they intended it to do that, but it works very well and I think keeps the cycles of the furnace lower than if it wasn't plummed that way
2. I recently saw a show on travel channel about RV's where an industry rep said that the "Bus" style front is what sells and the more aerodynamic styles don't move as well. So, despite the logic, they make what sells. I heard the same thing on a TV show about longhaul trucks - The truckers want a truck to look like a truck, not a bullet train, so despite anyones best intensions, they make what sells. Kudos to those that push the limits (like: Home Page ) but right now they just don't sell. Maybe as Diesel passes $5 a gallon things will change.
3. Hopefully, Double Pane is the future, but it is expensive. I upgraded to double pane in much of my stick house...it's not cheap I believe it's available for RV's now, but is a premium option.
4. Roof racks used to be all the rage. I remember a roof rack on my parents "El Dorado" class "C." It was never used because it was too high up to load and my Dad always worried about hitting something in a low overhead situation...so I think they just died out.

Now - the grey water flush is a great idea and doesn't seem like it would be too hard to plumb on any rig. Thanks for the idea!
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:51 AM   #52
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1. Both our 2000 and 2002 DSDP's have had floor ducted heating (as well as heat pumps with duct work in the ceiling). You can get true floor heat also but it's expensive (about $9000 as I remember and only on some rigs)
2. Not much we can do about that.
3. Both have had double pane windows, they are no longer an option in Dutch Stars they are standard although they were on ours.
4. Both have had roof racks.
Black tanks have had flush outs in them as standard equip. Have never seen the need for them on the grey tanks though.
JMHO after RV'ing since 1957.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:51 AM   #53
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How about reducing maintenance time and costs, like:

Nearly Lifetime synthetic engine oil. Just change gasoline engine oil filters every 15,000 miles/1 year, whichever is first, and diesel engine oil filters up to 60,000 miles/1 year, whichever is first. Only change oil when used oil analysis dictates.

100,000 mile/4 year air filters. Just vacuum clean when dirty.

7 year/minimum 250,000 mile engine coolant.

Minimum 50,000 mile motorhome synthetic ATF and gear (differential) oil.

Extended synthetic grease intervals.

AMSOIL already offers these with a free parts and labor warranty should these products ever fail and comply with factory warranties. As a bonus, Ford Motor Company gained a 6.54% fuel economy improvement with these changes compared to the Texaco conventional products they were using.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:03 AM   #54
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Quote:
The recycled grey water for the toilet would be a simple plumbing fix with an additional pump and a couple of valves.
Simple to install, but I would never use grey water in toilets again. We built a house years ago that was self sufficient - we generated our own power, recycled water after collecting from spring and rain, heated with high efficiency wood stoves, etc. Our only tie to a supply source was propane for some livestock heaters. The problem with recycling grey water is that it can get really nasty (smelly and discolored) real quickly. We had to install filtration on input lines and take special care. Even then we would wake up some mornings with really stinky "clean" toilets. We disconnected the grey water recycle from inside and used it exclusively for lawn and garden irrigation.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:45 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seajay View Post
Ok..... I will type slow because this can get confusing and I havent seen it suggested yet.

One. Install a queen size Murphey Bed in the back of your coach.... (easy)

TWO. Use the available technology used in some of the better ''slides'' already in usage on our coaches and make a slide on the ''BACK'' of the coach that would extend out about six feet from the back of the coach. By doing this we could SHORTEN OUR COACHES BY AT LEAST FIVE FEET. The slide would be solid like my living room slide and not made out of canvas like on the trailers I have seen. To close the slide you raise the Murphey bed and secure it to the wall and ''SLIDE THE REAR END OF THE COACH FORWARD'' just like my living room slide works now. When you stop to camp, SLIDE THE BACK OF THE COACH OUT, LET DOWN THE MURPHEY BED and you are ''home'' again.
Three.... Advantage........ The motor home could be made shorter and lighter with all the convenience of a queen walk around we now have.
Dis advantage.... No bed to lay down on while you are traveling.

If you use this great idea you will have to pay me ten cents and you can pay me the next time you see me..

God bless our troops and bring them home real soon......
X2!
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:59 AM   #56
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Girard makes your instant hw tank they replace any factory tank with a trim kit. Price is slightly more than a regular tank. They appear to be very officiant and are a great idea. If you want to go tankless now in days I would recommend a girard
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