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Old 02-06-2016, 01:34 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by lanerd View Post
Not sure I understand this statement. Our coach is 1" shy of being 44' long and our toad, while not a large vehicle, follows within the coach's tracks easily. I have no problems with the toad in tight corners. I would suspect those with a trailer, or even a dolly/auto might have to take it into consideration.

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If you had to do a three point turn to get the coach out (because the coach wouldn't turn sharp enough), you'd have to unhook the toad before backing up.
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Old 02-06-2016, 01:41 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Steve Ownby View Post
This steerable tag adds complexity and weakness to a pretty bulletproof component. The old system of unloading or raising the tag worked well. If you have ever worn out your tag tires prematurely because of scrub then you should go for this.
We have the manually controlled tag on our rig. The edges of the tires are rounded off more than the rest due to the sideways scrubbing, but certainly not anywhere to the point of needing replacing due to it after 45,000 miles. It's a non-issue to me.
The only thing is I have to remember to manually raise the tag for tight low speed turns. The steerable tag would eliminate that is all.
The 45' rig we now have fits in beside the stick house just like the previous 40' one, but I do have to raise the tag to get the correct turning radius and I haven't wiped out the neighbors mail box yet!
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Old 02-06-2016, 01:55 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by cwsqbm View Post
If you had to do a three point turn to get the coach out (because the coach wouldn't turn sharp enough), you'd have to unhook the toad before backing up.
Yes, under those circumstances, I agree. That scenario was not mentioned previously.
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Old 02-06-2016, 01:55 PM   #18
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"lanerd".....I can see what he's saying. On my 40' with a tag and towing my Silverado, I can turn pretty sharp and the truck stays in my track, but the coach still swings the rear and makes the truck follow the swing. With the steerable tag, it drives more through a turn than swings......which keeps the toad in a tighter arc too.

I certainly wouldn't call IFS hype versus a straight axle. I've had both and the IFS rides better and gives more of a wheel cut. I also think a steerable tag is an improvement over the old system and adds manueverability. I believe they eliminate the raising and lowering tag components when they add the steering. So one item is just exchanged for another.

Adding safety and drivability are always welcomed improvements. If they were not, the high end manufacturers wouldn't be using/adding them.

Now here's an issue I do see and Newmar ran into this. Many of these companies are adding all of these extras, which increase weight, but are still using the same chassis. For example, Newmar has added a lot of features and heavy items to the Dutch Star in the last couple of years and is now taxing the chassis and engine to push all that weight down the road. They've had to recall the 2016 coaches to add a heavier front axle. I would love a 2016 Dutch Star with all the improvements, but I think the ISL 450 will be a marginal power plant. It's okay in mine, but certainly not overpowered. I suspect they'll need to go to a small ISX in the future.
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Old 02-06-2016, 02:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don View Post
Now here's an issue I do see and Newmar ran into this. Many of these companies are adding all of these extras, which increase weight, but are still using the same chassis. For example, Newmar has added a lot of features and heavy items to the Dutch Star in the last couple of years and is now taxing the chassis and engine to push all that weight down the road. They've had to recall the 2016 coaches to add a heavier front axle. I would love a 2016 Dutch Star with all the improvements, but I think the ISL 450 will be a marginal power plant. It's okay in mine, but certainly not overpowered. I suspect they'll need to go to a small ISX in the future.
The ISX 12 would be nice in the new DSDP's that's for sure.
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Old 02-06-2016, 02:03 PM   #20
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Steerable (passive or active) has become the latest bullet point desired by the marketing department because the competition has it (or doesn't have it yet). The previous item in this category was IFS. Also way over hyped in large heavy vehicles.

This steerable tag adds complexity and weakness to a pretty bulletproof component. The old system of unloading or raising the tag worked well. If you have ever worn out your tag tires prematurely because of scrub then you should go for this.
I think Steve is on point.

Steerable may be slightly more maneuverable than a tag with the air dumped but it physically cannot be much better. Turning radius is a function of wheelbase and steering cut. Once the air is dumped the tag will slide.

Backing up both the standard and passive are locked straight and the air is dumped. No difference there.

I expect the steerable is a 10,000 option + whatever maintenance is required for the extra moving parts. They show some really scrubbed tires in the marketing brochures but . . . . I expect those tires were for demonstration purposes only and did not come off of a coach.

Since 99.9% of coach tires will be replaced because of age rather than wear I think I will stay away from the steerable option and replace the tires every seven years. The 10,000 will replace all of the tires on the coach for the lifetime I will have it.

It does look really neat though when you see it working.
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Old 02-06-2016, 02:24 PM   #21
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I really just don't like the looks of a rear steer coach, I know it's just the wheel is backward to make it work and all. But I still like the deep dished wheels!
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Old 02-06-2016, 03:22 PM   #22
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Entegra Coach is adding the steerable tag to the Cornerstone and claiming a 7% tighter steering radius.

Spartan chassis - link here.

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Old 02-06-2016, 10:56 PM   #23
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It doesn't seem like it would, but both Spartan and Freightliner say the turning radius is decreased by the tag. Apparently, it pushes the rear end around the corner. I think Freightliner said 10% increase.
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Old 02-07-2016, 09:44 AM   #24
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Agree with Steve re the "over-hype" aspect. Sure, a steerable tag is a nice feature, but hardly the Holy Grail. The marketeers would have you think you can't drive a big rig without it, but it's really just a nicety. It surely reduces sideways "scrubbing" of the tag tires, and probably improves the turning radius a little by removing that sideways resistance, but it is nowhere near the effect of a steerable rear drive axle (ala the "Allsteer" mentioned previously here).
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Old 02-07-2016, 10:33 AM   #25
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Recall when Comfort Steer was 'the difference maker' in DP's! And you know. Another system I've never driven, but from owners it does make a difference.

No steerable tags will add opportunities for expanded maintenance expenses... But in the overall scheme of higher end DP's, not that much...

Both of the Big Two chassis makers, have the ability to provide solid designed steerable's. Hopefully they are both bullet proof as possible at he get go!

I see very little downside to steerable, and every incremental improvement on maneuverability is a plus. Some I can think of, incidental in some cases, include: Adding Tags (moves the drive wheel forward, for a tighter turning radius), IFS (as mentioned, allowed higher percentage of front wheel cut) and now steerable tag's, with the edge between passive and active going to active.

Any time you can improve your ability to maneuver thru tight quarters, gives you and those around you a safety edge.

And yes, it of course gives the marketing gang another drum to beat too!

Best to all,
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Old 02-07-2016, 10:59 AM   #26
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It doesn't seem like it would, but both Spartan and Freightliner say the turning radius is decreased by the tag. Apparently, it pushes the rear end around the corner. I think Freightliner said 10% increase.
FCCC claims 15% improvement over a conventional tag. No mention of what a conventional tag consists of and the condition used to compare.

It would be really interesting to see an identical chassis (one with and one without) steerable and compare the steerable against a conventional with the tag dumped.
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Old 02-07-2016, 01:55 PM   #27
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Gordon....When Newmar first came out and offered the steerable tag, they had a whole press release showing how it worked and how much it shortened the turning radius.

I don't know if I would pay to add it on, but I think, like Comfort Steer, previous tag axles that lifted and other chassis improvements, it's probably here to stay and will migrate into brands as time goes on, especially since you really only have two major chassis providers who now both offer it.

When talking about complexity, go work on your car. It has a computer running everything. Heck....just to start your car, it has to receive signals from six different places or it won't start. RV;s are getting to be the same way....there is no changing that.
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Old 02-07-2016, 02:08 PM   #28
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It would be nice to know if, when they are giving the 7% or 10% or 15% improvement in turning if they are comparing it to a standard non-lifting tag or lifting tag or lifting tag with the tires lifted.
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