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Old 05-02-2016, 08:25 AM   #15
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I have never driven a steerable tag nor have I had access to a steerable to observe or compare.

Spartan claims a 7% reduction in turning radius:

"A 7% reduction in curb-to-curb turning radius means you can navigate the twists and tight spaces of parks and parking lots with greater confidence"

They do not say what they are comparing it to. I suggest they are comparing to a standard tag that has not been dumped. That would be fair as they do not dump the steerable.

Freightliner claims up to a 17% reduction in turning radius:

"Up to 17% reduction in curb-to-curb turning radius as compared to a competitor's chassis on a fixed tag—that's a 140% improvement over the competition"

They compare to a competitor with a fixed tag. Probably without the air dumped. No mention of steering cut angles or wheelbase, etc. It seems like each manufacturer has unique wheelbases for similar chassis so which are they comparing to?

If you do not dump the tag on a tight turn you can feel the resistance to the turn as you have to apply more throttle. With the tag dumped I do not have to add throttle.

A steerable tag would be a very desirable feature if we were wearing out tires due to mileage or because the tires scuffed. Most of the RV tires are replaced due to age so a bit of scuffing that is encountered is insignificant.

Our coach as an auto dump feature. The first thing after I start the engine and ensure there is oil pressure is to touch the auto dump. Until the engine is shut off or the auto dump is cancelled the tag will dump below 8 mph when going forward.

IMO the steerable tag adds cost and maintenance complexities that exceed the benefits when applied on a MH. Does look neat though.
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:10 PM   #16
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Now on the Dutch Star, they reverse the tag wheel and put on a hub cap, which does look fugly!
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post

Our coach as an auto dump feature. The first thing after I start the engine and ensure there is oil pressure is to touch the auto dump. Until the engine is shut off or the auto dump is cancelled the tag will dump below 8 mph when going forward.
I don't have an 'auto dump feature', and wouldn't want it.

My tag doesn't just dump air, it lifts the tires off the ground when I press the button. I wouldn't want that happening every time I came to a stop!
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Old 05-02-2016, 02:53 PM   #18
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...My tag doesn't just dump air, it lifts the tires off the ground when I press the button. I wouldn't want that happening every time I came to a stop!
Most coaches built these days no longer do that. All you can do is drain air out of the bags taking weight off the tag.
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Old 05-02-2016, 05:32 PM   #19
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I don't want to get into an argument about this, but I'm sure that the steerable tag does turn sharper than a lifted tag in both directions.


The reason is this: when you turn your steering hard over driving forward, the front tires scrub on the pavement to shove the front of the coach to the side and make the turn. The rear is just trying to push straight forward while the front turns. The scrubbing causes the turn to take longer than the theoretical "perfect" route would be. A steerable tag will turn to mimic the front and add turning force to bring the back of the coach around better.


The same happens in reverse, of course, with the tag actually taking the lead in making the turn and keep it tighter.


I don't have a tag of any sort, so it's all theoretical to me.....................


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Old 05-02-2016, 06:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLGPE View Post
...The reason is this: when you turn your steering hard over driving forward, the front tires scrub on the pavement to shove the front of the coach to the side and make the turn. The rear is just trying to push straight forward while the front turns. The scrubbing causes the turn to take longer than the theoretical "perfect" route would be. A steerable tag will turn to mimic the front and add turning force to bring the back of the coach around better.

The same happens in reverse, of course, with the tag actually taking the lead in making the turn and keep it tighter...

Tom
I agree, with the exception of "the same happens in reverse". These passive steer tags won't turn when the coach is in reverse, it locks strait, so at that point it's no different than a fixed tag. Either can be aired down.
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Old 05-02-2016, 07:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLGPE View Post
I don't want to get into an argument about this, but I'm sure that the steerable tag does turn sharper than a lifted tag in both directions.


The reason is this: when you turn your steering hard over driving forward, the front tires scrub on the pavement to shove the front of the coach to the side and make the turn. The rear is just trying to push straight forward while the front turns. A non -slip differential will route the power to the side with the least resistance (traction or the longest way to travel). That is why a car with one tire on pavement and one on ice is slow to accelerate. The tire on ice will spin. In a turn the power will go to the outside wheel actually assisting in the turn.The scrubbing causes the turn to take longer than the theoretical "perfect" route would be. A steerable tag will turn to mimic the front and add turning force to bring the back of the coach around better.


The same happens in reverse, of course, with the tag actually taking the lead in making the turn and keep it tighter.


I don't have a tag of any sort, so it's all theoretical to me.....................


Tom
Actually the tag will scrub. When the tag is dumped the only weight on the tag is the tire, rims, axle and tag suspension. All in I would expect about 1200+/- lbs total. Meanwhile the front axle is at 15,000+\-.

I have not noticed any scrubbing from the front tires. I have made tight turns on asphalt parking lots, gravel parking lots, and on grass. While the tag leaves marks the drive and front axles do not.

In reverse the steerable tag (passive) has to lock in place straight and the air is dumped. I am not aware of a fully steerable tag on coaches but I expect that will be the next upgrade.

One of the threads on the forum dealt with a fellow who had a passive steerable that would not lock in the straight position while backing up. The tag would cock to the opposite side and he had to skid the tag tires to back into his parking spot.

One poster said that in order for the tag to lock in the straight position the coach had to be centered while moving ahead for a short distance so the tag returned to center. If one were making a curb to curb turn and were not able to complete the turn without backing up the tag would have to be skidded sideways or the driver would have to anticipate reverse and go straight for the tag to center. In the promotional material I have not noticed anything marked as a power centering device.

I recall a few years ago there was a move to have all wheel steering on some cars. I do not recall any being offered for sale in the current stable of popular cars.
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Old 05-02-2016, 07:30 PM   #22
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Tag axle

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Originally Posted by michael huot View Post
Hi

New to MH's still searching. Can someone talk to me about tag axles, what they are and are they acceptable?

Tks

Michael

Hey Michael!
I think that steerable tags are not pertinent unless that is what you are looking at.
If you post more here about specific target makes and models, you should get more relevant replies.
I suggest you test drive a lot of rigs. The benefits of the tag will be obvious in ride and handling. Any loss of storage is not very noticeable; I have more than I need!
Best wishes


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Old 05-02-2016, 07:36 PM   #23
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Sorry about the error. Don't have one and didn't look it up. My mistake.


I'm not sure why they don't do it that way, but I am reasonably sure they gave it adequate thought..Or not.


On Gordon's post, there are several cars out there that do have all wheel steering. The fronts don't turn much, but it helps in some situations.


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Old 05-02-2016, 07:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post
Good explanation.

I have to question the statement that manufacturers are making about the new steerable tag. IMO if the wheelbase and steering cut are identical on two coaches there will be little difference in turning radius between a steerable tag and a tag with the air dumped.

If you read the promotional literature they do not seem to compare the same dimensions/specs when they claim anywhere from 10 - 17% decreased turning radius.

A steerable tag will reduce tire scuffing on a tag but even if the tag is not dumped it is highly unlikely most owners will replace the tag due to wear before the tire ages out.
FL compares their steerable tag with a non lifting tag. I specifically asked them this question.
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Old 05-02-2016, 07:47 PM   #25
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Tag axle

FWIW, my tag tires show no undue wear from scuffing after 18K miles. Perhaps it doesn't happen enough to make it an issue. In fact, they are so near new looking I am going to swap them with the steer tires.
I do notice the big delta in control, handling and ride. The rest seems superfluous.

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Old 05-02-2016, 08:35 PM   #26
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Freightliner is saying their new steerable has a 10% tighter turning radius with a steerable tag. I watched a Newell video the other day and the Newell (Foretravel?) Realm is advertising a 7% tighter turning radius with a steerable tag.

If you think about it, it's pushing the duals into a tighter turn radius. I don't know how big of a deal it is. I'm pretty impressed when I stick my head out my driver's window and see my front tire at an almost right angle to the body when turning (55 degree wheel cut).
Seeing is believing, and I was lucky enough with the (late) Steve Wilson at Holland RV to prove it with a back-to-back test. In an empty school parking lot, we first took a 2008 Country Coach 45' Magna, and at a standing stop with lifted tag, cranked the wheel hard left and then began driving forward slowly (to minimize scrubbing/get tightest turn).

We then came back with a 2009 Newell with a turning tag and started in the same exact spot. Not only did the outside tires of the Newell turn inside the inside tract of the CC, but the amount of rubber tire marks left on the pavement were considerably less. It was a real eye-opener for both of us!

One other benefit not mentioned...Another pair of brakes! And I'm told traction control is much more effective.

-Mark
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Old 05-02-2016, 08:45 PM   #27
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What is it you want to know? They are there to increase the load carrying capability of the motorhome and they make the vehicle much more stable in the wind and she trucks go by. They cost some storage space but to me it is worth it.
Steve
Ditto! Well said and succinctly!
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Old 05-02-2016, 08:50 PM   #28
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Seeing is believing, and I was lucky enough with the (late) Steve Wilson at Holland RV to prove it with a back-to-back test. In an empty school parking lot, we first took a 2008 Country Coach 45' Magna, and at a standing stop with lifted tag, cranked the wheel hard left and then began driving forward slowly (to minimize scrubbing/get tightest turn).

We then came back with a 2009 Newell with a turning tag and started in the same exact spot. Not only did the outside tires of the Newell turn inside the inside tract of the CC, but the amount of rubber tire marks left on the pavement were considerably less. It was a real eye-opener for both of us!

One other benefit not mentioned...Another pair of brakes! And I'm told traction control is much more effective.

-Mark
So, what is the front axle wheel cut? Were they both the same or not? According to the spec's our Reyco-Granning is 58°. If the Magna you tested was a 55° and the Newell was 58° or 60° that alone would account for the difference.
Our 45' Magna with the 58° wheel cut and tag lifted can be maneuvered as well or better than our 40' Dutch Star non-tag with 55° wheel cut
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