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Old 06-08-2014, 09:13 PM   #1
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Tag Axle Bag Issue After Dump

OK...I had something just start happening that has me scratching my head. Looking for any thoughts on this...

Recently after I dump my bags and put the coach on the jacks I have noticed my right side tag wheel is off the ground. The first time I saw this a week ago I thought it was possible (not likely) it was over a low spot but I think I was stretching that. The next time I saw this was last night in a new CG but I really didn't think it was poorly leveled either. Finally tonight I am on a flat, concrete pad and it is definitely off the ground while both drive set of tires and the left tag tire has good ground contact. WHAT'S UP WIT DAT'?! LOL

When I lower the coach off the jacks the tire is firmly on the ground and appears to have normal contact pattern compared to the other side.

I am not hearing any abnormal cycling of the compressor nor am I having any problem with rear tank pressure.

So, I have driven it about 700 miles since I first noticed it. I have kept a close eye on tire temps for both the drive and tag wheels and they all seem quite normal. The tire pressure on each wheel at end of the drive axle remain matched both to each other and to the other set on the other end of the drive axle. The tag wheel pressures remain consistently matched with each other too. Temperature reading are also reasonably close too. So, I am not seeing this create any obvious driving/handling issues.

Now...I only have 2 theories because I have a rather limited amount of knowledge on this subject but here I go.

1. It should have been doing this all along and my left tag bag needs to be looked at. LOL

2. Maybe there is a problem with the ride height adjustments causing this.

Pretty weak theories I think. LOL

BTW...at first blush I have ruled out that the auto dump in reverse is directly involved. When I parked it last night in a pull through I did not use reverse. However, both 2 nights ago and again tonight I did maneuver to a stop in reverse before dumping bags so the tag dump was activated just prior to that dump.

I already have a June 23rd appointment at the Spartan factory for its annual service and installing new shocks. Certainly I will contact them tomorrow about this to make sure I wasn't stupid assuming I had a drivable situation. I was just wondering if any of you have an idea what might be going on.
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:24 AM   #2
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Let me ask the simple question.

On a level, even surface and after leveling the coach, are your tag wheels on or off the ground?

In hind sight it certainly is theoretically possible that both wheels could be slightly off the ground after dumping the bags and that function has not been correct all along. That assumes I properly understand that the bags hold the tag wheels down and by dumping them they will lift off the ground when up on the jacks and should have all along.
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Old 06-10-2014, 09:31 AM   #3
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BTW...yesterday I took it off the jacks. I activated the tag dump switch and it seemed to work as expected. Again, no unusual compressor sounds. Governor valve popped and all air pressure reading remained steady for many minutes.

I made sure I put the MH in drive to eliminate any potential of the reverse activating tag dump before I shut it down and leveled it.

I put it back on the jacks and right tag wheel was again off the ground about 3/4". Kept the engine running and no change plus air pressure readings remained steady too.

This is a pretty level pad and none of the jacks seem to be extended beyond what I normally see when on level ground.
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:29 AM   #4
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Welcome to the forum, LEARN HOW TO USE SEARCH!!!

hehe, just kidding! You da' man. My post is more of a bump

I do not have a TAG axle. When you dump the bags intentionally does it lift both TAG tires off the ground completely or just remove the load but the tire still contacts the ground. No need to answer these questions to me, just thinking through how I would diagnose. If the deflating the bags HOLDS the tires off the ground normally, then what is supporting that weight and why is one side acting differently would be my line of thought...

Until someone who knows what they are talking about posts....

Chris
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:49 AM   #5
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Hi Don.

My Roadmaster raises the tag by dumping air. Dont know if yours is the same. I will be looking at mine a little closer.
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Old 06-10-2014, 03:54 PM   #6
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Most of the tag coaches will carry from 40 to 70 psi in the tag bags for normal driving. When they are dumped, the pressure is released, however, mine and most that I know of will retain a minimum of approx. 20 psi for backing or turning. Without some air in the tag, the tires would slide when coming to a stop, because the ABS does not work below 10 mph. Any braking at all below 10 mph would stop the tag tires if there were no weight on them. Some of the high end coaches (1.5-$2 million) actually lift the tires off the ground.
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Old 06-10-2014, 04:14 PM   #7
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The Spartan chassis uses bag pressure to keep the tags DOWN as Crasher alludes to.

As I have seen lately and never seen before, jacks down on level ground keeps all drive wheels on the ground. In that past I had never seen either of the tag wheels lift off on level ground. It was in the last couple weeks I saw the right tag wheel leave the ground.

I checked with Spartan and based on the information of my original posting they felt I was safe to hold off until I reached the factory in a couple weeks.

I'm just thinking that it would be funny if what I am seeing on the right side is actually normal and that something has changed/fixed itself and thus my left side is actually the one that is (still?) a problem.

Go figure. LOL
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Old 09-10-2014, 03:53 PM   #8
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Sky Boss,
It's possible you have a bad shock on that side. I've seen this happen (shocks stick in the up position) when they have some type of internal damage. As long as it (the shock) can still move when you have the coach down on the wheels, it's safe to ride, for a limited time.
Another possibility is, and this is just a guess, and If you have leveling valves on each side, you may have one valve that is bad, disconnected, or out of adjustment.

I would lean toward the bad shock holding the axle up on that side guess first. Because the leveling valve can't stop the natural up and down movement of the axle.
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Old 09-10-2014, 07:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtwallace View Post
Sky Boss,
It's possible you have a bad shock on that side. I've seen this happen (shocks stick in the up position) when they have some type of internal damage. As long as it (the shock) can still move when you have the coach down on the wheels, it's safe to ride, for a limited time.
Another possibility is, and this is just a guess, and If you have leveling valves on each side, you may have one valve that is bad, disconnected, or out of adjustment.

I would lean toward the bad shock holding the axle up on that side guess first. Because the leveling valve can't stop the natural up and down movement of the axle.
DTW
Thanks for your thoughts. It has been a couple months since this thread was active and here is the current status.

I've replaced the shocks all the way around the coach and that didn't fix the problem. After letting the HWH system attempt to level the coach it indicates we are level. In reality it seems a tad nose and rights side high. At that point I use a carpenter's level to level the coach to tweak the level and that seems to do the job.
I've had a chance to check the HWH level controls because I haven't been able to stop long enough on level ground to make any adjustments but that will be my next step.

Since the HWH system seems to think it is level and shuts itself down I think the HWH level control is the most likely culprit. The coach is at Bradd & Hall getting a new floor so I won't see it for about 2 more weeks but will have time to work this issue once I get it back.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:02 PM   #10
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On my coach when I raise the tag axial the pressure holding it down (which is adjustable) is released. Another bag with a mechanical arm that is chained to the tag axial is activated and lifts the axial off the ground. The chain length is adjustable so you can set the height of the axial lift. Maybe your chain broke or came loose on one side or one of your lift bag failed.
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Old 09-11-2014, 12:37 AM   #11
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Wow,

Now that makes sense, I don't have the chain setup on mine, and I've only seen that before on trucks.

Hope we find out soon, this has me really wondering.

DTW
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