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Old 07-13-2016, 07:43 AM   #15
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swagn-

As far as installing a converter goes, it would help to know where that brake signal comes from. It could be tied to the same wiring as the coach tail lights or to the trailer electric brake circuit. I'd have a different answer for each.

Another concern. My former coach was built on an F-350/450 chassis. Coach and trailer lights were tied together. This meant there was not enough voltage at the toad lights. They were dim. Ford provides separate wiring and relays on the newer F-350/450 chassis and the F53 to cure this problem. If your coach has the coach and trailer lights tied together, it may be prone to dim toad lights, too.
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Old 07-14-2016, 09:49 AM   #16
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Ok, I did your test...When I depress brakes signal light quits blinking and NO brake lights on trailer...coach brake lights are on...new converter...red is hot going in when brakes are depressed.
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Old 07-14-2016, 02:30 PM   #17
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swagn-

Do you know the make and model of cars the prior owners towed? Do you know if any prior owner towed a trailer?

There's only a few ways that a brake signal can get to the trailer connector without riding on the turn signal wires. Thinking that through, these ideas come to mind:

A) It's meant to be wired with separate turn and brake signals at the hitch connector. This would be non-standard hitch connector wiring. It would help to know the source of the brake signal. It could come from the same wires as the coach brake lights, or it could come from some other source, such as the trailer electric brake connector under the dash. You can install a converter as is, and make the hitch connector standard, but if in so doing you disable the trailer electric brake wiring, anyone who want to tow a trailer with the coach in the future (including you!) will have problems doing so, because you have "stolen" that circuit's brake signal.

B) The hitch connector is supposed to be wired for standard pinouts. In this case, there's something broken:

B-1) Your coach does have a 3-to-2 converter, and it has failed, or the connection to the brake signal has failed.

B-2) The multifunction (turn/hazard) switch in the steering column has a missing input from the brake switch, or has an internal open such that the brake signal is not being superimposed on the turn signal as it would be if things worked.

I don't want to sound as if I'm harping on this, but if you can access the two Ford connectors at the rear of the coach, and carefully open the loom that holds the splices 6 to 12 inches to the rear of the connectors, a lot of mysteries could disappear, and a clear course of action come to the fore. On our former coach, those connectors and splices were buried and not available for quick inspection. On our current coach, they are right out in the open. Perhaps your coach is more like the latter and not the former.
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Old 07-14-2016, 02:55 PM   #18
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Mark,
You're right on in analyzing his issues. Sometimes it's hard to descipher what he's done but, based on what he's stated so far, if I interpret things correctly, he DOES have a brake light signal in the red wire, when the brakes are applied on the coach. For some odd reason, it's not getting applied to the green and yellow wires, on the output side of the converter. Again, if I'm interpreting things right.

If he's got both turn signals, entering the new converter, and, the red wire/brake signal is also entering the new converter, then logically, based on the theory of operation of the converter, the yellow and green will supply turn signals when that's what's asked for. But, if no turn signals are asked for, and the brakes are applied in the coach, then those yellow and green output wires, SHOULD go solid and, light up the brake lights on the toad. At least that's the way it's supposed to work.
Scott
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Old 07-14-2016, 05:55 PM   #19
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Scott-

I did see the words "new converter," but chose to pass over them. If "swagn" has a new converter and it's not working correctly, then that's a different problem to solve.

I always get myself in trouble by assuming that the wiring diagrams I have for my 2008 coach (2007 chassis) apply to other-model-year chassis. Usually, it take sage and uncritical comment from Grant ("gtharris") or other folks like you on iRV2 to set me straight. If you can indulge me a bit more, I'll wrap a bit more explanation around the wiring (if it bears any relationship to what "swagn" has!).

According to the "Turn/Hazard Switch Inputs" diagram I posted, there are four brake signals that flow from the brake switch as the chassis comes from Ford. The destinations for those signals are:

1) Turn/Hazard switch
2) Dash interface harness F81D-14A318
Ford connector C211, pin 3
Located in dash
3) Tail and Trailer Light interface harness, F81D-14408
Ford connector C405, pin 8
Located inside left rear frame rail
4) Trailer Electronic Brake Control interface harness, F81*-14A348
Ford connector C210, pin 2
Located under dash, left-hand side

Destination 1 should be used to feed most "standard" hitch connectors, as it provides the turn-signal-plus-brake-signal the standard requires.

Destination 2 is available for the coach builder to use if he has any "logic" circuits up front that need it.

Destination 3 is usually used for coach brake lights (for coaches with separate turn and brake lamps, as "swagn's" coach has). It's possible that, although they needn't have done it this way, Thor chose to splice the coach brake lights to the hitch connector.

Destination 4 is to feed a brake signal to an under-dash electric brake controller. My concern- and why I've gone to this length to explain things- is that the "red/blue" wire is (or is not) a pass-through of that electric brake signal. If it is, then intercepting it for input to a converter would render that wire unavailable for it's intended use as a brake signal to a trailer, not a toad.

There are several folks like you on iRV2 who advocate an "analyze, understand, simplify, enhance" approach to wiring and other RV systems issues. Count me in that number.

And, in the end I'd like to see all hitch connectors standard, without converters. "Black boxes" break, wiring not so often. I know- I installed "boxes" to power my coach and trailer lights on the last coach, and the trailer light "boxes" failed twice in a three-and-a-half month trip. The manufacturer appeared "surprised" by that failure rate, but could offer no explanation for it.

That doesn't mean I'm going to give up "enhancing" my coach's circuits/systems, though!

I'll close with the appropriate smilie:

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Old 07-14-2016, 08:08 PM   #20
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Hey Mark,
I do agree with all the parts of your answer with the exception of your idea of wanting all trailer plugs simplified and standardized and, with NO CONVERTER. Well, I'm not sure how that would work. As you well know, if one vehicle is setup and operating with a 3 filament system(amber turn signals) but, the trailer or toad is, a 2 filament system, and you want all the correct lighting signals at the back of the trailer or toad, a CONVERTER must be placed in line, so that the two vehicles can talk to each other and have things display correctly.

But, I do understand your thoughts. And, as far as you having problems with your "Black boxes", well, I'd say you most certainly had some bad luck and, some bad batches of them. I've had various versions of them (3 wire to 2 wire, 2 wire to 3 wire, and others) for up to many years without any failure what so ever. So, not sure what to tell ya Partner. Keep posting logic, I enjoy reading it.
Scott
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:00 AM   #21
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No Brake lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by swagn View Post
Thank you...I did test and have ALL except brake lights...I traced back under M/H and found connection with "many wires" spliced but no converter. I agree it is converter but can't find...I do have blue wire brake light in 6 pin connector that works I assume for trailer brakes) but the signal lights do not show braking when brake depressed. Can I rewire just for 4-flat and forget the 6 pin?
thanks to all of your replies, I finally got it to work...I bought another 3-2 wire converter and spliced into brake light on back tail light. Now all works well
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Old 07-18-2016, 02:08 PM   #22
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Hey swagn,
We all surely thank you for getting back here with your remedy for your situation. So many don't and, we never know if we've helped or not.

Scott
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