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Old 02-09-2013, 04:30 PM   #99
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Yes, Texas calls their non-cdl "exempt".
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:44 PM   #100
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He just needs a Class A most likely, IAW Section 521. (or Class-B, as appropriate)

I personally think that the "exempt" referenced in Section 522 should have a reference to section 521, but that's just my opinion.

As I have stated, many people get on the DOT web site and search for CDL. They get into section 522 and read the part about exempt for personal use and then believe that they do not need a special license, and of course that is not correct if they read section 521. Just ranting.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:42 PM   #101
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You are right that the word is confusing even in their docs. The local office calls it exempt so I am calling it that until I take the driving test on Tuesday.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:54 PM   #102
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Anyone taken the written and driving test in McAllen or other RGV location?
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:45 PM   #103
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Here we go again.

Texas has changed the presentation of the driver license manual again.

Updated July 2012:

See here: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/interne...Forms/DL-7.pdf (pdf file)

It states:

"Individuals who operate any of the following vehicles are exempt from obtaining a CDL but may need a Class A or Class B driver license because the type of vehicle driven still meets the definition of a commercial motor vehicle. For more information on what is considered a commercial motor vehicle, please see the special requirements section in the Texas Commercial Motor Vehicle Drivers Handbook."
.
"3. A recreational vehicle driven for personal use."

MY NOTE: It is a general statement that a recreational vehcile does not need a CDL if used for personal use.

"A Class A driver license permits a person to drive:
1. Any vehicle or combination of vehicles described under a Class B or Class C driver license; and
2. A vehicle or combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 lbs. or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) towed is in excess of 10,000 lbs.

MY NOTE: Notice that it is a "combination of vehicles" and the trailer must weight more than 10,000 lbs.

Where will someone get a trailer weighing more than 10,000 pounds for a test. Any TOAD will not be able to be backed up which raises another point in testing.


"Class B Driver License
A Class B driver license permits a person to drive:
1. Any vehicle included in Class C;
2. A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 lbs. or more and any such vehicle towing either a vehicle with a GVWR that does not exceed 10,000 lbs. or a farm trailer with a GVWR that does not exceed 20,000 lbs.; and"

MY NOTE: Notice there is no mention of a "combined" vehicle, only that the vehicle itself must be more than 26,001 pounds. It can also pull a trailer (toad) that does not weigh more than 10,000 pounds (except farm trailers).

Nowhere does it require a "Form-2."

Based on the "New Manual" it is my opinion that 99.9% of RV users will never have to have more than a Class B license. I cannot see where any DMV in Texas would require anything except a 10,000 pound trailer and MH with a combined weight of 26,001 pounds or more. If the say any trailer will do, it is not in keeping with the own intent of their law. IMHO

Well, Redbarron, please let us know how it goes. Be polite, don't argue until you have passed and have your license in hand. Power can be evil.

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Old 02-09-2013, 10:24 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne M View Post

Based on the "New Manual" it is my opinion that 99.9% of RV users will never have to have more than a Class B license. I cannot see where any DMV in Texas would require anything except a 10,000 pound trailer and MH with a combined weight of 26,001 pounds or more. If the say any trailer will do, it is not in keeping with the own intent of their law. IMHO

Well, Redbarron, please let us know how it goes. Be polite, don't argue until you have passed and have your license in hand. Power can be evil.

Well I'm going to disagree with your 99.9% of RV users statement only needing a class B license. What about the fivers that weight => 10,000 lbs.? Even Redbarron is talking about pulling a trailer in the 13,000 to 15,000 lb range with a 42' motorhome. Of course I still don't know how he's going to be able to do that and stay under the Texas 65' combined length limit. Here in Nevada the limit is 70', but if I were to drive through Texas at that length I would be illegal because there is no reciprocity on length, among other restrictions.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:25 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobGed View Post
Well I'm going to disagree with your 99.9% of RV users statement only needing a class B license. What about the fivers that weight => 10,000 lbs.? Even Redbarron is talking about pulling a trailer in the 13,000 to 15,000 lb range with a 42' motorhome. Of course I still don't know how he's going to be able to do that and stay under the Texas 65' combined length limit. Here in Nevada the limit is 70', but if I were to drive through Texas at that length I would be illegal because there is no reciprocity on length, among other restrictions.
Bob,
Read the Class-A requirements again. Several manuals back I had to get a Class B CDL because the trailer we towed was 14,000 pounds and the requirement then was specifically stipulated that a Class B was required. We pulled it with a 1 ton. In 1986 I took and passed my Class B test in that vehicle. At that time when I spoke with the DPS clerk she said I didn't need a Class B. I asked to speak with the driving inspector. He came out, and then he called another DPS person out. I showed him the manual and finally they all agreed that I did need a Class B.

However, since that time the manual has been rewritten several times and wording has changed. In the Class-A requirements I posted above it specifically states that for a Class A the weight has to be 26,0001 pounds or more and "provided" that the trailer is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

In the Class B requirements it is 26,001 pounds or less and a trailer weighing less than 10,000 pounds. So even if you have a trailer (5th wheel) weighing 15,000 pounds and a 1 ton at 10,000 pounds, your combined weight is less than 26,001 pounds so in my opinion the highest license required would be a Class-B, but even then there is no written provision that I can see. I believe a Class C would suffice.

Not very cut and dry, is it?

In Redbaron's case with a trailer 13k to 15k and a MH weighing more than 26,001 pounds he would need a Class A. My question then is, if he shows up with an empty flat bed trailer it is not going to weigh 10,000> pounds. How does the DPS justify giving a driving test for a Class A when the requirements of weight have not been met at the test site?
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:18 AM   #106
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Wayne, I understand what you're saying and I should have been a bit more specific. I realize that some fifth wheels over 10,000 lbs can be towed with a dually and stay under the 26,001 lb limit, but I am seeing more and more MDTs and HDTs towing some monsterous fifth wheels that have to be over the 26,001/10,000 limits. I don't have any idea as to what the numbers are, but I would bet it's more than .1% of RVs on the road.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:46 AM   #107
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Wayne, I'm kind of thinking that the flatbed doesn't actually have to weigh 10,000 lbs. as long is it is rated at 10,000 GVWR or more.

Nevada has also recently revised their handbook and I'm in the process of trying to figure out just what has changed. It appears that they did away with the R-endorsement for one. If you are towing a fiver and a Nevada resident, you'll need just a Class C with the J-endorsement as long as both the tow vehicle and the fifth-wheel are under 26,000 lbs. GCWR.

If Redbaron was a Nevada resident, he'd also need a Class A because both vehicles together (GCWR) will be over 26,000 lbs.

-harry
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:27 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobGed View Post
Wayne, I understand what you're saying and I should have been a bit more specific. I realize that some fifth wheels over 10,000 lbs can be towed with a dually and stay under the 26,001 lb limit, but I am seeing more and more MDTs and HDTs towing some monsterous fifth wheels that have to be over the 26,001/10,000 limits. I don't have any idea as to what the numbers are, but I would bet it's more than .1% of RVs on the road.
Bob,
I should have stated it as "vast majority," instead of 99.9 percent. The later being to exact for the scientists. Hee hee!

Quote:
Originally Posted by amanda_h View Post
Wayne, I'm kind of thinking that the flatbed doesn't actually have to weigh 10,000 lbs. as long is it is rated at 10,000 GVWR or more.

Nevada has also recently revised their handbook and I'm in the process of trying to figure out just what has changed. It appears that they did away with the R-endorsement for one. If you are towing a fiver and a Nevada resident, you'll need just a Class C with the J-endorsement as long as both the tow vehicle and the fifth-wheel are under 26,000 lbs. GCWR.

If Redbaron was a Nevada resident, he'd also need a Class A because both vehicles together (GCWR) will be over 26,000 lbs.

-harry
Harry, You are correct. GCWR is the vehicles max capacity. It is and not the GVW (curb weight). Redbaron would most likely need a tandem axle trailer of significant length to satisfy their requirements. It would not have to be a flat bed, a large box U-haul should do the trick. My company, way back when in '86, rented a U-haul type truck with air brakes so I could convert my Class-A CDL to one without restrictions. The license in Texas at that time would specifically state, "Restrictions: no-air." It had all the other benefits of a Class A CDl but i could not drive a vehicle with air brakes until the restriction was lifted.

I wonder how Redbaron is doing?


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Old 02-10-2013, 09:12 AM   #109
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My plan: show up with my 16ft flat bed that is rated for 12k and hope that it passes unloaded. If not then I will offer to load a suburban on it and bags of cement.

My wife is scheduled the following day so if we both go then she can get the B, and I will push for the A.

This is more of an exercise of inquisitiveness vs actual need, as all I have now to tow is the toad and it is under 10k.

I just like to get the A now in case the change the rules later when I get a stacker and fill it full.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:32 AM   #110
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Good plan! I do understand.

Bureaucracy, ugh!

p.s., take the trailer registration along to show that it is rated for 12K.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:15 AM   #111
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Bottom line: trailer must weigh over 10k.


Decided to get the class B and upgrade when I get a stacker trailer.

Legal now for what I own right now, so at least that is an improvement.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:56 AM   #112
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I seriously thought that it was going to be that way. I went through the same process for my CDL back in '86. We towed a laboratory goose neck that weighed in at 16,000 pounds or so and pulled it with a 1 ton, 454 Chevy (4 mpg on a good day towing with two 16 gallon tanks. I never passed up a gas station). So I had to opt for the Class B. Some time later we upgraded the tow vehicle to a 2-1/2 ton Mercedes diesel and the combined weight was over 26,0001 pounds and I upgraded to the class A.

Originally I had "no air" meaning a restriction of no air brakes for the CDL. With the upgrade to the Mercedes 2-1/2 ton with air brakes I had to go down and take a test again. I aced the written, when I was walking out with the inspector I casually said, "Wow, aced the written and I have to take a driving test!" She stopped in the hall, said, "Where is your truck," and I pointed out the door window and showed her. She asked me two questions regarding air brakes, I answered correctly, and she said, "You passed."

So not only does location become a deciding factor, the inspector is also the most deciding person in the chain.

Happy trails.
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