Texas Lemon Law / Buy Back

[GotLemons]

We purchased a new $400k coach in Texas last July and have had major issues. Unfortunately we have found ourselves in one of the nightmare horror stories I have occasionally read about in the forums.

Can anyone recommend a lawyer with Texas lemon law experience?

Also, has anyone successfully gone through a buy back with a manufacturer?

Thanks!

[alpha99]

Originally Posted by GotLemons

We purchased a new $400k coach in Texas last July and have had major issues. Unfortunately we have found ourselves in one of the nightmare horror stories I have occasionally read about in the forums.



Can anyone recommend a lawyer with Texas lemon law experience?



Also, has anyone successfully gone through a buy back with a manufacturer?



Thanks!

Sorry to hear of your problems.

What is the make/model of the motorhome?

[Ted E]

Can you please elaborate on your issues, chassis or other. Have your made numerous attempts with manufactor to have items fixed? This will have barring on the legality's.
Best of luck,
Ted

[LeeSusan]

See RVs & Motorhome :: Texas Lemon Law Blog
Seems to be an issue of unresolved attempts to repair, that he blogs about.
==
Who made your coach?
What were your major issues?
What did you do, specifically with the dealer and the mfg, to resolve each of the issues?
What was your experience with rvs going in and your expectations when you took possession? Industry standards are pretty bad regarding mfg quality control. Buyers must identify and fix a lot of stuff...not like a car.
Did you go through an extensive PDI verification over several weeks before accepting the rig to protect yourself and uncover as many quality control failures as possible in writing and then insist on them fixing them before taking possession?
What was your intended use: vacations, extended stays, full time?

New buyers often suffer quite a bit to work through the quality control failures that are standard for the industry, but with patience work through most of these "challenges" with the manufacturer and dealer.

It is the journey, not the destination, that many rvers value, otherwise they would take air flights and live in hotels.

[GotLemons]

I have had over 100 issues front to back. I have documented every issue with photos and video. I have extensive repair records for everything. The coach is either at a service appointment, waiting on parts or traveling to its next service appointment.

All of the advice I have been given by others is to find a good attorney with experience with Texas Lemon Law or have the manufacture buy back the unit. However, I haven't found anyone with experience with either. I would prefer to not pick a random attorney from a Google search.

At this point I'm not going to disclose the manufacture or the extensive list of issues.

Since people are trying to gauge my expectations and competency on the RV, these are not minor problems like a light switch doesn't work. They are more like, last Friday I was going down the highway at 70 MPH and my engine controller computer turned off. I lost engine power, the dash went black and all gauges turned off. Luckily I was on a straight road. It wouldn't have been a good ending if I was coming up to a turn with no power steering.

Other issues like the seat belted seats are not bolted down. This is because when they were assembling the coach, the bolt brackets didn't line up right. Someone decided to use a few wood screws to hold the seats in place.

There are major structural welding issues where instead of welding all 4 sides of a structural joint, they just tack welded on side. Most of the joints have large gaps and are not structurally sound. I also have cracked structural welds.

That's 3 out of 100+

I could go into the numerous water leaks, plumbing issues, chassis issues, electrical issues and so on. However, what I really need is a good attorney at this point. Any help in finding a good one that has a track record of winning cases like this would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!!!

[Wayne M]

I feel your pain, however using the lemon law the vehicle has to meet certain criteria. The biggest key is that the manufacturer has to be given the opportunity to repair the defect.

You can read about it here: Texas Lemon Law

Take note that the Texas Lemon Law applies to a single defect and not defect after defect of different problems. Well that's the way I read it but I'm no a lawyer.

[austx]

I would contact the office of the Texas Lemon Law to see if they have any lists of attorneys who specialist in this if you can't find one here. I wasn't clear, have you contacted the manufacturer, not the dealer, but the manufacturer? I would keep talking to a higher up and keep up the chain of command and talk to the president if needed. Just a suggestion.

If you haven't already, join the forum of owners of your MH to see if they have an attorney referral. I have always believed that your MH isn't the only one experiencing these kind of issues.

Please have patience with us here at iRV2 as most of us don't have an attorney to refer so we are trying to help you the best we can.

Good Luck and I am so sorry.

[LVRVLUVR]

Originally Posted by GotLemons

We purchased a new $400k coach in Texas last July and have had major issues. Unfortunately we have found ourselves in one of the nightmare horror stories I have occasionally read about in the forums.

Can anyone recommend a lawyer with Texas lemon law experience?

Also, has anyone successfully gone through a buy back with a manufacturer?

Thanks!

we went through one with Fleetwood...pretty painless deal... the coach we had bought a Fleetwood storm had the box welded on crooked...
the rep from Fleetwood came out looked at it and said it could not be repaired with taking the walls out and said they were taking it back..

heres where it got good,,,the let us up grade to southwind and all we had to pay was the wholesale difference ... ended up being one of the best ever for us

the 32v southwind

pretty sure if you have a case they will just take care of it.....but if they think its fixed maybe not...

ours was in calif. and the has 30day to repair... but it has to be consecutive days...


we almost had to do another with forest river or fre lost a wheel bearing and they had it in the shop for almost 30 days... mike Thompson just took it back and we got the winnabago....then the wheel bearing went on it.....

so traded it in on the excursion......we're back to happy campers again
and love the freightliner...
so it all worked out in the end....

one thing to remember is you will go against the builder..not the seller...

good luck...these deals are sad as most have rv's for the fun of it.....

[LVRVLUVR]

Originally Posted by Wayne M

I feel your pain, however using the lemon law the vehicle has to meet certain criteria. The biggest key is that the manufacturer has to be given the opportunity to repair the defect.

You can read about it here: Texas Lemon Law

Take note that the Texas Lemon Law applies to a single defect and not defect after defect of different problems. Well that's the way I read it but I'm no a lawyer.

thanks for posting...pretty good read

When can I use the Texas Lemon Law?

If you have purchased or leased a new motor vehicle and it develops a defect or condition that substantially impairs the motor vehicle’s use, market value or safety, you may be eligible for relief under the Texas Lemon Law. You are required to allow the manufacturer a reasonable opportunity to repair the defect(s) before you may file a complaint for lemon law relief. There is a $35 filing fee required with the submission of the Lemon Law complaint form. The number of reasonable attempts may vary based upon the defect’s effect on the normal operation of the motor vehicle.
How many “reasonable attempts” to repair a defect is the manufacturer allowed?

One way to show the dealer has had a reasonable number of attempts to fix a defect is to pass the following tests. Mileage requirements in the tests do not apply to travel trailers.
The Four Times Test

You pass this test if you have taken your vehicle to the dealership for repair

• twice for the same problem within the first 12 months or 12,000 miles, whichever comes first; and
• twice more during the 12 months or 12,000 miles following the second repair attempt, and
• the problem continues to exist.

The Serious Safety Hazard Test

A serious safety hazard is a life-threatening malfunction that substantially impedes your ability to control or operate the vehicle normally, or that creates a substantial risk of fire or explosion. You pass this test if you have taken your vehicle to the dealership two or more times for the repair of a serious safety hazard

• once during first 12 months or 12,000 miles, and
• once more during the 12 months (or 12,000 miles) following the first repair attempt, and
• the problem continues to exist.

The 30 Day Test

If your new vehicle has been out of service for repair due to a defect that substantially impairs the use or market value of the vehicle due to defects covered by the warranty for a total of 30 or more days during the first 24 months or 24,000 miles, and there were at least two repair attempts during the first 12 months or 12000 miles, and the problem still exists. If no loaner vehicle was provided to you by the dealer during this time period, you pass the test.
It is advisable to contact the Lemon Law Section of the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles (TxDMV) for more specific information and assistance at (888) 368-4689.
What motor vehicles are eligible?

Cars, trucks, motorcycles, motor homes and all terrain vehicles are covered, as well as demonstrator vehicles that develop problems covered by a manufacturer's written warranty. Travel trailers must be titled and registered in Texas to be eligible.
Are used motor vehicles covered?

Your used vehicle may be covered under current state laws. Texas laws related to warranty performance may cover your vehicle if your used vehicle is still covered by the manufacturer's original warranty (not an extended service contract), or if the problem started and was reported to the dealer while under warranty and it continues to exist, repair assistance of the warranty-related problem may be available to you.

[Mike and Cha]

It wasn't a MH and not in Texas, but I did it on a Chevy Suburban. Before you get a Lawyer, document all your visits to the dealership, the amount of time your MH was left for repairs and the outcome of each service appointment, and all the peoples name you dealt with. Keep it in a notebook including copies of the service orders and photos if you have any.

Then call the Manufacturer complaint line or customer service number in your Owners manual and ask to speak to a rep. Let them know what is going on and ask them to meet you at the dealership as you are considering getting an attorney and doing a "Lemon Law" filing if they can't fix your MH to your satisfaction. They don't want this as if the MH is declared a "lemon" they cannot just fix it and put it back out on the line, it has to be sold as a "Remanufactured Lemon" with full disclosure of all issues and remedies.

In the case with Chevy the reps have a lot of power/authority and we met in a private office at the dealership. In my case the Rep listened to my complaints and looked at all my documentation and made copies. We then discussed it with the Service manager together and the Service Manager had no real reason why they couldn't fix it and started to give the Rep lip service. With my permission the Rep asked that we give them one more shot, and left the Suburban for as long as they needed to address 9 issues. They also gave me a brand new loaner car. We agreed to come back when they felt they were done and the car was as it should be in new condition.

It took them three weeks and we finally all met back at the dealership. I told the rep to look at the car and if he felt that was what a new car customer should accept I would take the car and be satisfied. The rep looked at the first two things on the list, which still were not fixed correctly and without discussion looked at the dealership owners and said "Replace the vehicle with a new one, this is unacceptable".

I had to order the new one as they had no more in stock of that year. We did a "Collateral Exchange" which is a legal documentation of getting the new vehicle where they change all the info on your loan papers(if financed) to reflect the new vehicle, you do lose out on any payments you have already made, and you do not pay any sales tax or registration as it is all carried over from the original purchase. The only thing you would pay is if you order a new MH and ad options you didn't have and the sales tax on that amount.

If you try this and they don't cooperate with you, then simply let them know you are going to consult an attorney. This way if you do go to court a Judge will clearly see you exhausted all options and gave them a chance to make it right....This was in California and it all worked out great in the end for us, even though it took 9 months from the date of purchase to be done, but only 3 months after contacting the rep. Would have taken less time if I didn't have to order a new one. Good Luck and keep us posted.

[LVRVLUVR]

Originally Posted by Mike and Cha

It wasn't a MH and not in Texas, but I did it on a Chevy Suburban. Before you get a Lawyer, document all your visits to the dealership, the amount of time your MH was left for repairs and the outcome of each service appointment, and all the peoples name you dealt with. Keep it in a notebook including copies of the service orders and photos if you have any.

Then call the Manufacturer complaint line or customer service number in your Owners manual and ask to speak to a rep. Let them know what is going on and ask them to meet you at the dealership as you are considering getting an attorney and doing a "Lemon Law" filing if they can't fix your MH to your satisfaction. They don't want this as if the MH is declared a "lemon" they cannot just fix it and put it back out on the line, it has to be sold as a "Remanufactured Lemon" with full disclosure of all issues and remedies.

In the case with Chevy the reps have a lot of power/authority and we met in a private office at the dealership. In my case the Rep listened to my complaints and looked at all my documentation and made copies. We then discussed it with the Service manager together and the Service Manager had no real reason why they couldn't fix it and started to give the Rep lip service. With my permission the Rep asked that we give them one more shot, and left the Suburban for as long as they needed to address 9 issues. They also gave me a brand new loaner car. We agreed to come back when they felt they were done and the car was as it should be in new condition.

It took them three weeks and we finally all met back at the dealership. I told the rep to look at the car and if he felt that was what a new car customer should accept I would take the car and be satisfied. The rep looked at the first two things on the list, which still were not fixed correctly and without discussion looked at the dealership owners and said "Replace the vehicle with a new one, this is unacceptable".

I had to order the new one as they had no more in stock of that year. We did a "Collateral Exchange" which is a legal documentation of getting the new vehicle where they change all the info on your loan papers(if financed) to reflect the new vehicle, you do lose out on any payments you have already made, and you do not pay any sales tax or registration as it is all carried over from the original purchase. The only thing you would pay is if you order a new MH and ad options you didn't have and the sales tax on that amount.

If you try this and they don't cooperate with you, then simply let them know you are going to consult an attorney. This way if you do go to court a Judge will clearly see you exhausted all options and gave them a chance to make it right....This was in California and it all worked out great in the end for us, even though it took 9 months from the date of purchase to be done, but only 3 months after contacting the rep. Would have taken less time if I didn't have to order a new one. Good Luck and keep us posted.

pretty much what happen here.... soon as the rep was involved ..it was handled...

[zeelarry]

Originally Posted by Wayne M

I feel your pain, however using the lemon law the vehicle has to meet certain criteria. The biggest key is that the manufacturer has to be given the opportunity to repair the defect.

You can read about it here: Texas Lemon Law

Take note that the Texas Lemon Law applies to a single defect and not defect after defect of different problems. Well that's the way I read it but I'm no a lawyer.

Correct Wayne, but I believe you know an attorney

BTW, Texas Lemon Law has some strict requirements. The first one is that the individual must be a TEXAN and the RV MUST BE titled in Texas.

[Kiawah]

I number of months ago, I read an appeals lawsuit on a similarly priced motorhome as yours. I don't remember whether I read it on a law forum, or a motorhome forum. It had been bought in the wifes name, and originally registered in another state (to avoid sales tax), and had about years worth of problems. States were out west somewhere.

It was not a lemon lawsuit. There was an original lawsuit with a finding, and then this lawsuit was an appeal of the first lawsuit.

I'm doing some extensive traveling for a month and don't have time to research this, but my suggestion is to either hire a lawyer to research this and give you an opinion how to proceed.....or do some research yourself.

Good luck.

[Wayne M]

Yes Larry, the attorney I know is in the family, but not lemon law. Besides he probably doesn't even do pro-Bono for family.