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Old 05-18-2016, 10:28 AM   #239
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Here is the current F53 chassis info. The C class is built on a Cutaway chassis and is very similar to the E chassis. The V10 engine is rated at 305hp and 420ftlb of torque on the Cutaway GVW of 10.5k (not shown) to 320hp and 460 ftlbs on the F53 at 26kGVW. So you get 15hp and 40 ft lbs from 10500 to 26,000Lbs. Max GCVW of 30k.

Notice all the chassis have boosted hydraulic brakes and spring suspension. I don't see any provision for engine braking or the loss of brake boost.

Here is the Freightliner chassis. From 300Hp and 660ftlbs of torque at 26000lbs GVW to 600hp and 1950 ftlbs at 58000GVW. Air brakes with spring break for air loss, air bag suspension on most, raised rail for pass through storage. I can't seem to find the GCVW for the XC/XL chassis. Ive read they go from 10k to 15k towing, but don't take my word for it.

This also bring up the discussion of towing and HP as a function of altitude. Its been my experience that HP loss due to altitude is mostly not noticed east of central KS. West of central KS is a different thing. There is ~20% loss of HP on a naturally aspirated engine at 5,000 ft (Denver) and a corresponding loss of cooling efficiency due to the lower air density.

Cummins engines are all turbo charged. They are rated at 100% duty cycle above the torque peak and will maintain rated HP from sea level to 10,000 ft. All of them can be fitted with and exhaust brake (ISB/ISC) or a true compression brake on the larger engines. All the diesel engine are after cooled to help with the heat load.

Whether the difference between the gas chassis and the diesel chassis is worth the upcharge is a personal choice, naturally.

I hope this helps.
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Old 05-20-2016, 06:24 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
The V-10 is a very high RPM motor. Very comfortable at 5K RPM.
Although I do care about my engine's comfort, I care about my own comfort more.
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Old 05-20-2016, 10:57 PM   #241
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The V-10 is a very high RPM motor. Very comfortable at 5K RPM.
Is there a such thing as 5,000 RPMs....
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Old 05-21-2016, 12:07 AM   #242
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Just before the Big Bang, in theory at least....
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Old 05-21-2016, 09:41 AM   #243
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Truth about DPs

The Ford v10 is governed so not to worry about RPMs. I don't need to push ours beyond 3800 RPM. Tiffin has done a decent job of noise reduction. And haven't found a thread talking of a blown engine as of yet. And according to a Newmar dealer(owner) 70% of motorhomes sold are gassers. So I think the Ford v10 is capable and can have a longer life than the coach it carries.
The average travel per year on most MHs is under 6k. Thats 60k in ten years and well within the lifespan of that engine. Simplicity of the Ford chassis is it's beauty. Ease of maintenance and accessibility to Ford Truck dealers is also a plus. Tiffin seems to build the gassers with the same floor structure, wall design, and roof construction as the Diesel Red, so if that would be true of Newmar or Fleetwood IMHO I would not hesitate on buying a high end gasser of the brand that fits your favorite floor plan. We put Sumo Springs on ours and I think the most of the DP fans would be surprised at the ride and handling.
If you spend 120k on a new tiffin36LA (after discount) and the comparable Red is 200k (after discount) then account for 10% depreciation per year the loss in your investment is greater on the DP Red. And there probably are more potential buyers who can afford the gasser after ten years at that price point.
Either way the Red and Phaeton are wonderful coaches as are the Discovery and Dutch Star but not 100k or 200k nicer in amenities. We will be holding on to our 36LA gasser and enjoying the value of a "high end" gasser. Greetings and best wishes to you all for happy and safe roads this summer.
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Old 05-21-2016, 12:25 PM   #244
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The Ford v10 is governed so not to worry about RPMs. I don't need to push ours beyond 3800 RPM. Tiffin has done a decent job of noise reduction. And haven't found a thread talking of a blown engine as of yet. And according to a Newmar dealer(owner) 70% of motorhomes sold are gassers. So I think the Ford v10 is capable and can have a longer life than the coach it carries.
The average travel per year on most MHs is under 6k. Thats 60k in ten years and well within the lifespan of that engine. Simplicity of the Ford chassis is it's beauty. Ease of maintenance and accessibility to Ford Truck dealers is also a plus. Tiffin seems to build the gassers with the same floor structure, wall design, and roof construction as the Diesel Red, so if that would be true of Newmar or Fleetwood IMHO I would not hesitate on buying a high end gasser of the brand that fits your favorite floor plan. We put Sumo Springs on ours and I think the most of the DP fans would be surprised at the ride and handling.
If you spend 120k on a new tiffin36LA (after discount) and the comparable Red is 200k (after discount) then account for 10% depreciation per year the loss in your investment is greater on the DP Red. And there probably are more potential buyers who can afford the gasser after ten years at that price point.
Either way the Red and Phaeton are wonderful coaches as are the Discovery and Dutch Star but not 100k or 200k nicer in amenities. We will be holding on to our 36LA gasser and enjoying the value of a "high end" gasser. Greetings and best wishes to you all for happy and safe roads this summer.
X2.....That's exactly why we went with our Canyon Star 3610, which is basically the same as your Tiffin 36LA. Great ride, great performance. I can do all my own maintenance, and it's never been in the shop since the original purchase. I had to take it back for a minor adjustment, but took it home the same day, other than that no issues. And it is built exactly like the equivalent Ventanna, and has the same basic amenities. Just follow these threads and you will read about many more breakdowns with the diesel set up than you do the gas, and most of them are fairly expensive.

What gets me is most of the people who make negative comments about the Gas MH's are driving Older diesel models and make all their comparisons to Gas MH's that they drove years ago and don't have the newer technology/suspensions/motors ect. I think the Gas MH's have come a long way in the Quality, Ride, and Amenities you can get.
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Old 05-21-2016, 02:08 PM   #245
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......
What gets me is most of the people who make negative comments about the Gas MH's are driving Older diesel models and make all their comparisons to Gas MH's that they drove years ago and don't have the newer technology/suspensions/motors ect. I think the Gas MH's have come a long way in the Quality, Ride, and Amenities you can get.
I've been in a few new gassers. No comparison. Yeah, it's better than my old 80's era gasser was, but it wasn't as nice or quiet a ride as my old diesel is. I have no doubt that the Newmar and Tiffen gas offerings are going to be better than the Winny and Fleetwood units we tried out, but apples and oranges. Gassers have definitely come a long way, but I still prefer our DP.

We went through the RV buying dance just two years ago. We went from looking at TTs (wifes idea) to looking at class Cs (something I was used to) to looking at small class A units from Thor and Winnebago and Fleetwood. Then we started looking at larger, used class A units, then moved to even older DPs. By the time we got into the large class A gas small DP territory we were already becoming immune to the "bling" factor of the new coaches. Especially all the faux finishes in the gas units.
Bear in mind our test drives consisted of mountain roads and really beat up city streets in the northern Va area. The old DP held it's own against everything else we drove.

I'm not saying new gas units are screaming rattletraps (most of them anyway), nor do I think anyone else is. They simply don't ride as well as a heavy diesel on air ride with IFS and a rear engine. Still, I really think it comes down to size, as the only areas of real overlap are 36-38ft. In that area there are some woefully under-powered DPs out there that would have a hard time outperforming their gas counterparts.

This discussion is really only relevant in the narrow range of 36-38ft, where there are so many other factors at play that it really brings things back around to those very personal aspects of: budget, needs, standards, and personal taste.
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Old 05-21-2016, 03:05 PM   #246
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I've been in a few new gassers. No comparison. Yeah, it's better than my old 80's era gasser was, but it wasn't as nice or quiet a ride as my old diesel is. I have no doubt that the Newmar and Tiffen gas offerings are going to be better than the Winny and Fleetwood units we tried out, but apples and oranges. Gassers have definitely come a long way, but I still prefer our DP.

We went through the RV buying dance just two years ago. We went from looking at TTs (wifes idea) to looking at class Cs (something I was used to) to looking at small class A units from Thor and Winnebago and Fleetwood. Then we started looking at larger, used class A units, then moved to even older DPs. By the time we got into the large class A gas small DP territory we were already becoming immune to the "bling" factor of the new coaches. Especially all the faux finishes in the gas units.
Bear in mind our test drives consisted of mountain roads and really beat up city streets in the northern Va area. The old DP held it's own against everything else we drove.

I'm not saying new gas units are screaming rattletraps (most of them anyway), nor do I think anyone else is. They simply don't ride as well as a heavy diesel on air ride with IFS and a rear engine. Still, I really think it comes down to size, as the only areas of real overlap are 36-38ft. In that area there are some woefully under-powered DPs out there that would have a hard time outperforming their gas counterparts.

This discussion is really only relevant in the narrow range of 36-38ft, where there are so many other factors at play that it really brings things back around to those very personal aspects of: budget, needs, standards, and personal taste.
Well said.
I haven't liked ANY of the 40'+ gassers.
They sure are quiet though!
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Old 05-21-2016, 03:25 PM   #247
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I don't think anyone with a Gas MH is trying to imply that Gas MH chassis are better than a Diesel Chassis. The diesel chassis MH should ride nicer, and be quieter, the equivalent MH of ours in a Ventanna(diesel chassis) was $100,000 more, you gotta get something for that amount of money.

But the newer upper end Gas MH's drive quite nice, handle great and get you anywhere a diesel MH will and not necessarily any slower. I drive at about the 62mph zone give or take depending on the terrain, and would not drive any faster/slower if I had a diesel pusher. We went back and forth between the Canyon Star and the Ventanna and the real decision maker for me was I can do all my own maintenance on a Gas Engine, and the diesel I have no experience with and there seems to much more maintenance and things that tend to need repair. I hate for anyone else to work on any of my toys unless it's absolutely necessary.

So the bottom line is there is no reason for someone with a diesel MH to put down the Gas MH's with some of the snide, and misinformed remarks you see throughout this thread. Especially if they haven't driven a newer one and are relating back 10 years or more Gas MH's or just relying on what they read here. The "big Bang theory" comment is just one example. I know it's not everyone doing that but I think we are all in this hobby to have fun, not to judge each others rigs. People buy a lot of things for a lot of reasons, and a lot of times it has nothing to do with what you can afford, but more as to what works best for you. Have fun and safe travels in whichever form of MH you chose.
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Old 05-21-2016, 03:38 PM   #248
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I stepped out of this argument about a hundred pages ago, but I'll say, I kind of chuckled at the Big Bang comment. But then, my sense of humor is quite distorted!
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Old 05-21-2016, 03:51 PM   #249
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You know what I hate about my diesel motorhome?? The diesel fuel, and fact that the diesel pump islands are coated with spilled diesel fuel that tracks all over the place if one doesnot employ techniques similar to working with biohazards. My rig is just big enough to not fit in most auto or even RV fuel islands, relegating me to the truck islands, which ARE a biohazard. Other than that, LOVE that big purring CAT in the back.
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Old 05-21-2016, 04:32 PM   #250
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Just follow these threads and you will read about many more breakdowns with the diesel set up than you do the gas, and most of them are fairly expensive.
A sweeping generality. The number of problems reported here about gas or diesel has little to do with the real world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike and Cha View Post
What gets me is most of the people who make negative comments about the Gas MH's are driving Older diesel models and make all their comparisons to Gas MH's that they drove years ago and don't have the newer technology/suspensions/motors ect.
This is what I meant earlier, we can't possibly be informed or we would have the same opinion as you. Repetition doesn't make true.

Quote:
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I think the Gas MH's have come a long way in the Quality, Ride, and Amenities you can get.
They have and I agree. That said, you still can't buy one with an Aqua Hot or has air leveling that I'm aware of. Which was my first point. If you want those things there are no gas powered choices, at any price. If you don't want them or any of the other things large diesels offer then there would be no reason to spend the money. These choices aren't good or bad, they are just different. We are different people with different resources, wants and needs.
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Old 05-21-2016, 09:40 PM   #251
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Coma, whatever you what to change my words into go ahead if that makes you feel better but never have I said or insinuated that anyone should share my opinion. That is the whole point of this forum to share ideas, opinions, and experiences. If the information on this forum has "nothing to do with the real world" then why would we waste our time replying to posts.

I agree with you and have said many times their is no right or wrong, it's whatever fits one's needs on which MH they buy. And unlike others I have in no way ever put down the diesel MH. But at the end of the day the information people post should be based on actual experience, with whatever the question is at hand. Wouldn't you agree?
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Old 05-21-2016, 10:14 PM   #252
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x2 Mike and cha. Wish I could afford a new DP + maintenance, or even a $160, 000 gasser. Thank God I finally got. MH. Gas for me is also more practical. Drive a few hours to a day, then sit for one to three weeks. Then drive home for two weeks or a month and repeat. 6.5 months of the year, MH never moves. DP would not be a total waste, but the money is better used enjoying camping. 😎😎
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