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Old 05-11-2016, 10:41 PM   #113
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Since you asked, there are a few of them here.. I understand that you said "most & usually"

Is the Cummins C8.3 Mechanical Dependable?

Not sure I've ever seen an 8.3L or a huge Allison in a pickup ...likely cheaper to keep an old non-electronic pusher on the road than buying several gassers over a few years.
the most dp on the road used to be the little 5.9... also as low as 230 hp.... now I would say it's the 6.7...or 7.2 cat.... the big motor dp 's make up the smallest portion of all the motor homes on the road...

100k miles on a motor home is the kiss of death.... low low ACV...

20 year old motorhomes are problems waiting to happen.....well, same with the new ones come to think of it...

the whole deal is ... get what you want ... life is short..
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:57 PM   #114
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You have no idea what your talking about dear sir. I own 2016 gas operated and I know first hand how it operates and how the fit and finish is on inside along with the components inside and I'll put it up against any dp out there and my weight to power ratio will out do you up hills down hills and everything in between. There is nothing cheap about my rig and it floats across the Hwy just as nice as any dp. I also owned quite a few big trucks moving more than 150k at a time and my motors were always up front with me. I understand and have more experience with diesel motors than you ever will and they are not all that and a bag of chips Dang swore I'd keep my mouth shut

JjSpeedwagon, you protest too much. You have taken a posting that was meant as a balanced presentation of another opinion as a personal attack, it was not, I don't even know you. I am glad you have a coach you like, but that does not mean everyone will agree with you. Since you know how my dp works and that your gasser will "...... out do you up hills down hills and everything in between". I am sure in your opinion you are correct.

At no time have I called your rig cheap, I said gassers are normally $100k less than DP's.

Of course your motor is up front it is in the tractor, not the trailer, otherwise it would be called a DP. If gassers were so great why are all OTR trucks diesel? Unleaded gas has been less expensive than diesel for years so trucking firms would be running gassers to increase the bottom line if they could handle the load.

This forum is for opinions, yours are as valuable as everyone else, you should not take other opinions as a personal attack, it is not meant that way, it is just another opinion.
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:06 AM   #115
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This forum is for opinions, yours are as valuable as everyone else, you should not take other opinions as a personal attack, it is not meant that way, it is just another opinion.
DrDave....with all due respect do you remember making this comment in your original post that he responded to.....

"The manufacturers recognize that the people buying gassers are doing so for price so they put the higher end amenities in the higher priced coaches. Some have tried to do it but it is like putting lipstick on a pig, it doesn't fool anyone, the construction is not the same, cheap plywood instead off real hardwood, plastic instead of glass, etc. I know there are exceptions, but not many, there are not a lot of choices."

I think anyone owning a gas model MH no matter what the brand would see that as an insult. You used the words "putting lipstick on a Pig" and "cheap" in the same paragraph, when referring to the build of gas MH's. I didn't buy a gas model just for the price and I got a quality built MH with the same amenities(for the most part) and quality of construction as the Ventanna. So I think you could see where the comment was a little more offensive than you make it sound. You also say something in that post or another one to the effect Gas MH's are not for driving cross country, and if you did you wouldn't do it again. I disagree, We travel all over the place with ours and have no issues driving cross country, or thru the mountain areas. Just my opinion.
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Old 05-12-2016, 04:09 AM   #116
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Talking about asking question I have one for you.

I was watching a video, what coach I have no idea, but it was a diesel pusher and they were showing how you can push a button and a floor goes over the entry stairs. Whereby allowing the passenger to have a place to rest their feet and I assume is beefed up enough that they can stand on it?

I never thought about the front stair well before. Do all DP's have the floor that slides out?
Our Dutch Star has the floor that comes up to make a solid floor in front of the passenger seat, but except to check it's function during purchase, we've found it to be of limited utility. The passenger seat has a foot rest that comes up, providing support to my DW's legs and feet, and we really don't see the need for the movable floor. We've got it, we won't take it out, and it works, but I wouldn't make it a feature that we look for in another coach. Just my personal preference!
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Old 05-12-2016, 04:43 AM   #117
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some like gas, some diesel........some like ford, some chevy..................whatever you have, just remember how fortunate you are to even be writing on this site...........many folks cannot afford ANY MH, let alone get into an argument on which engine is best.........what is next, arguing about which MH color is best.....................take a break.................
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Old 05-12-2016, 09:06 AM   #118
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Sweeping generalities are always false, even this one. Like, they're all the same once they're parked, hasn't enjoyed the quiet heat of an AquaHot. Or, the diesel pulls the hills better, as the 350hp gas motorhome blows by, because he weighs 16k instead of 40k.

Lots of misinformation here, for sure.
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Old 05-12-2016, 09:16 AM   #119
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Here's some facts from an expert in the automotive field...

diesel motors do not make more horse power than gas,,

that's why most all diesel motors are turbo charged...

hp and torque say what a motor will do...period..
now match that to vech. weight....

when you look at what a motor will do..the type of fuel will say the power

nitro, alcohol, gas then diesel.... diesel make the least explosive power..

but it also creates the less heat. diesel motors run at a way higher compression ratio..take a gas motor and run it the same and the longevity is gone...

the big problem is the heat... as you crank up the power on gas .. here come the heat

so they found that you can make more power at a lower rpm with diesel if you up the compression ratio, and turbo charge it...

if you take a 5.9 diesel motor, the one freightliner used on a million chassis..
and com pare to power to weight...horrible..

same with the new freight liners .. little truck motors that are loaded to the max...

the real problem with all mh's for me is they are all too big for the power they have..

I know for some bigger is better...in fact what ever they have is better..

the longest I've kept a motor home was my 22' class c searcher jamboree
use it to tow my 24' dragster trailer all over.. never had a problem camping in it with 2 kids, towed the boat... did everthing... as money allowed we worked up to our dream coach.. fleet wood discovery..5.9 turbo cummins

what a major disapointment, low power , horrible ride,.. nothing like all the storys from the braggers with coaches just like it..

now sure ... you can get to the nice diesel pusher for 300k...

but buy'n new you can't get there for 65k

and I know, I know ... the hay is cheeper once it's been through the horse

but that's the same for gas or diesel

and if you notice, all DP's are turbo charged..reason?? they don't have enough power with out it



I know some of you think a grasshopper can pull a plow...but it's just not so..
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Old 05-12-2016, 09:45 AM   #120
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There is a reason for both a DP and a gasser. Today's gasses are pretty nice, but not as nice as the DP's, why you ask. The manufacturers recognize that the people buying gassers are doing so for price so they put the higher end amenities in the higher priced coaches. Some have tried to do it but it is like putting lipstick on a pig, it doesn't fool anyone, the construction is not the same, cheap plywood instead off real hardwood, plastic instead of glass, etc. I know there are exceptions, but not many, there are not a lot of choices.

Secondly if you have driven cross country in a gasser you will never do it again. The noise from the engine and the shifting up and down make it miserable, and no, I have not driven one of the 2014 or newer gassers, they are addressing the symptom, not the problem.

IMHO a gasser is for someone that is not going to travel far. It is good for weekend trips or a two week vacation, but if you are going to travel cross country more than once or twice, reconsider it. A DP has the engine in the REAR. Think about it, your gasser with the engine between you, no matter how much insulation or tweaking of the tranny, the noise is still right there next to you, not 40' behind you. How can the manufacturers possibly think we will believe differently.

Have you ever seen a 18 wheeler on a cross country trip in a gasser, no, they understand the difference in power and torque and are willing to put up with the noise for it.

It just seems to me we all have to evaluate how we are going to use our rigs. Mostly close to home and want to save the extra $100k+, get a gasser. Long haul travel and have the $$$, get a DP. But in either case MAINTAIN your investment so it can serve you a long time!
Hey Doc,

I'll agree with your diagnosis on the higher end amenities, for the most part, although most appliances inside both are the same. DP's have a bus chassis, air brakes, air suspension, Jake brake, and the diesel engine. Gassers ride on a truck chassis, leaf springs, 4 wheel disc brakes, and tranny brakes.

Now as far as driving any distance in a gasser, you have created a symptom that doesn't exist! Our 2002 36' Dolphin with the 8.1L and Alison tranny is very capable of long distance cruising at a very nice level of sound and comfort. We tow our 4000# Jeep, like many DPs do, get 7 to 8 mpg, like most DPs do, and still do this with 96,000 miles on the coach!

After a 1800 mile run from Southern California, up to Oregon, over to Idaho, and up to Washington, doing a 550 and 470 mile day, don't think for a minute it can't be done, and we're probably heading to Colorado next on our 6500 mile, 7 month trip this year!

If I win the lottery I may end up with a DP. Until then the Dolphin is more than adequate.

Regards, Howard
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Old 05-12-2016, 09:51 AM   #121
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This is the funniest thread I've been privileged to participate in, in a long time!

Why "privileged"? Because of the post above, reminding everyone that MOST people in this world don't even know about this site, because they don't own a motorhome! Most of the people on this site are "well off", or downright RICH, in comparison to MOST people in this world.

Also,... I am glad that some people have a healthy sense of humor out there, and found my post "there are two kinds of people in this world....." humorous. As some of you know, that was the reference to Clint Eastwood, in "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly".

As far as "diesel, or gas" debate.......it will never end. Just like "Chevy or Ford" debate of my youth. I said it many times on this site,......"buy what you want, what you need, and what you can afford". The "right unit" needs to fit in these simple parameters. Or as Clint says in "Dirty Harry"......"A man needs to know his limitations."

There are actually MANY kinds of people in this world (world of RVing), and they all have different "wants", "needs", or "abilities". Some people are quick to sign ANY purchase/finance contract, and don't mind dishing out thousands every month, in order to have a nice, and shiny motorhome, they will use two or three times a year. There are people that live in their "not so shiny" motorhomes year around. There are also people that drive enormous number of miles every year, and they pull a load that would put some OTR trucks to shame (note the word "some"). Is one of these people "wrong"? Who is "right"?

The argument "which is better - gas or diesel", is a funny subject in our family. My father in law is LOADED, as in Ron White's routine,......"LOOOOADDDDDEDDD". He purchased a new Monaco gasser (top of the line) by writing a check for it. I asked him "why gasser". And he said,......"I liked it"! And that, my unknown friends, is why we ALL purchased whatever we drive. "Which one is better" is the same as arguing "which one is bigger". As you all know, "they" say "it's not the size that matters, but what you can do with it".

I purchased what I liked. I wrote the check for it (my check book is WAY smaller than my father in law's is!). He was shocked when he saw my rig. "You purchased an OLD diesel"!!? "You are going to drive MY daughter cross country in THAT!?" "If you wanted diesel, why didn't you take a loan out, and purchased the best out there?"

Well,.......because I am a "man who knows his limitations", and I also have my "likes", and "dislikes".

I purchased an older gasser just to be able to take my dogs to the beach. Then I was invited to visit a friend 1100 miles away, and I drove that MH back and forth (put total of 2700 miles on it), and then I sold it. I loved sleeping in it, I loved being in it on the beach, and I hated driving it. I still see that MH (my neighbor bought it), when wife and I drive by it every day, we still look at it fondly, and she says "I miss "Walter". We put a lot of love into that rig, in the short five months we owned it.

I have one now that I LOVE driving (and of course the rest, like sleeping, showering, and just plain "camping"). Aguahot, and Webasto are awesome. Solid hardwood feels and looks like antique furniture we like so much. But, something like this is NOT everyone's "cup of tea", and I don't expect everyone to "like it", or to give me their "approval". I couldn't care less what other people drive, and I also don't need anyone's "blessing".

It's an older rig. It fits my personality, I love driving it, my wife loves it (as I mentioned before, we LOVE vintage stuff), and my dogs are very comfortable in it. That's ALL it matters.

The fact we all like different things is great. Imagine what would happen if we all liked the same food, same drinks, same women..........wow!

Still,.......according to Costa ("My big fat Greek wedding") "there are only two kinds of people in this world, Greek, and people that wish to be Greek".
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Old 05-12-2016, 10:52 AM   #122
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Truth about DPs

Used to have a 1999 Rexhall w/ a 2 valve v10. Now have a Tiffin36LA w/ 3 valve v10. Bought the Rexhall from a retired bus driver. He always said he was impressed w/ the engine in it. It was 36ft long and pulled any hill (rt 30 PA) 1st gear at 3500rpm. Later found out there was a HUGE sign saying NO TRUCK ROUTE. We were pulling a Honda accord. Darn thing made it but scared us to death. Worked great.
The Tiffin w/ the newer 3v V10 is much better and the interior is as nice as the next model up (RED). But the RED would be almost $100k more. Plus I haven't even installed the 5 STAR Tune. Have taken up the mountain to Estes CO and people in front of me were holding us back. Totally enjoyed the drive out to CO from Pittsburgh PA. Again the dividing line between the DP and Gas COACHES is blurring. The Ford chassis isn't junk, but it is like comparing a horse to a mule. Frankly I really like "simple" and the Ford fits the bill.
That said I would love to someday have a Dutch Star. Absolutely a great coach. But having fun fixing QC problems of the Tiffin and seeing our great country which was great before DT was embryonic.
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:13 AM   #123
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the most dp on the road used to be the little 5.9... also as low as 230 hp.... now I would say it's the 6.7...or 7.2 cat.... the big motor dp 's make up the smallest portion of all the motor homes on the road...

100k miles on a motor home is the kiss of death.... low low ACV...

20 year old motorhomes are problems waiting to happen.....well, same with the new ones come to think of it...

the whole deal is ... get what you want ... life is short..

Just watch this...

And tell me who's an accident wating to happen.

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Old 05-12-2016, 11:20 AM   #124
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Just watch this...

And tell me who's an accident wating to happen.

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Old 05-12-2016, 11:22 AM   #125
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Just watch this...

And tell me who's an accident wating to happen.

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Old 05-12-2016, 11:30 AM   #126
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I'm a professional driver,
A professional driver with a camera in one hand.

I know, not everybody can do that.
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