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Old 05-16-2019, 01:28 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by gatorb8 View Post
Interesting concept and it may apply to a niche market today. The technology needs to come a long way before it applies to the whole market.
Yes indeed. I think it was said that this MoHo would cost in the 7 figures, so it's not a part of the market that I and maybe others would explore.
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:30 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Crasher View Post
I haven't read all of the posts, so maybe my opinion has been covered. Most people who would be in the market for this type of coach will seldom be dry camping. Many will be in luxury or at least higher end RV resorts. With that type of use, a generator is seldom needed except while traveling and that is covered with the engine providing the recharge. I can see where this type of aux power will be attractive to the Prevost, Newell, Foretravel, wannabe buyer at a lower investment. I'm not a fan of Thor products, but they have a niche in the market and with this technology could very well attract a new level of buyers. It's an interesting concept.
Well said. Love your Logic.
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:42 PM   #59
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I did not post numbers. Maybe your reading comprehension is less than perfect or you are confusing me with someone else who also thinks this is a bad idea. Here I'll help refresh your memory -

"There are problems with the power numbers and descriptions in the article. Specifically -

A. How quickly will a 540-watt roof-mounted solar panel array recharge a half depleted 36.4 kWh battery bank?

B. If shore-power charging relies on three pure-sine inverters for roughly 11,000 watt of energy what will the recharge rate be?

C. What is the additional loading on the power train when running an 11-kW 58V alternator to support the roof A/C(s) when on the road and the dash A/C is not adequate?

D. And the big unknown, what is the power consumption rate of the temperature controlled compartment the batteries are located in?"

Any numbers are from the article as published. I guess I should have included footnotes so you could find exactly where in the published article where the information comes from. Would that have help?

Now how about you post some answers as the resident expect and cheerleader for this frankenstein coach. Those of us who think this is a bad idea would like to hear your thought filled analysis. We'll wait.
Well, dang those look like NUMBERS to me. I didn't debate WHERE they came from. But you posted or Reposted them. I just asked what y'all think of it. Then here you come with some Field specific questions asking ME as if I'm an Engineer, just because I seem to be a CHEERLEADER for Modern Day Technology. Again, I'm not an Engineer so why ask that question? All you have to Do is Google it and there are your answers, instead of coming on here and trying to make someone look like a fool and trying to stand there as the big and bad one. But hey, I'll make it simpler for you. The name of the Company is THOR. They came up with this Concept Vehicle. If you need Specific Info, E'mail the team of ENGINEERS that worked on this, or their PR department for a more INDEPTH Exlanation on those numbers that you asked about or REQUOTED. WE'LL WAIT.
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:58 PM   #60
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Same kind of thinking when Tesla came out in 2008, in the last 10 years they have sold 300000 cars. Of course now, you have Toyota, Nissan, BMW, MB, Jaguar, VW and others selling all electric vehicles. While don't think Thor is top quality, I do applaud their forward thinking. Not ready for prime time right now, but a good start.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:24 PM   #61
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Standard disclaimer - I haven't read every post here.

But, my solar/inverter/lithium set up (Victron 24/3000, 6 315w LG panels, and 2/3 of a Nissan Leaf battery pack reconfigured..) runs the AC all day and I never use the genny anymore.

Ill still keep hauling the thing around in spite of the unnecessary weight because I like back-up, although it, like shore power, cant fully charge the batteries - only the panels can. My son has a similar set-up on his fifth-wheel (but with Hyundai batteries I think) , but only four panels and he has removed his generator with no issues.

So yes its possible, and while most people like to park in the shade we are always happy with sites with good sun. But I would be reluctant to buy manufacturer’s package system without some serious research. Also I have around $5000 in my system and from what Ive read, the Thor option has a somewhat higher premium.

For me its as much a hobby (if not more) as it is a matter of economical power, or being all green and happy for the few moments Im not destroying the planet or whatever. Probably the biggest benefit is having quiet, full power, when not in the presence of hook-ups. I know the dogs appreciate it when we are dining or shopping...
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:22 PM   #62
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Ok so now I have read through this thing, and the article. One thing Thor has that I dont is access to more or less unlimited engineering and development for a prototype. My system is admittedly somewhat Frankensteinial and Im running a theoretical max of 1890 watts of solar. In practice its less (although Ive seen over 1900w in perfect conditions). So 540w is also a theoretical max and in practice will be less. Even given the above, that seems absurdly optimistic to me.

Clearly the solar aspect of the system is an affectation presented in hopes that the potential consumer is thoroughly in the dark and will just have faith. To describe it as an integral, essential part of the system is misleading at best. And my guess is that folks in this market will look pretty closely before accepting the system rather than taking Thor’s word for it.

On the batteries, two thousand charge cycles running down to 10% is also a theoretical max and from what Ive seen, battery management isn't the strong suit of a lot of RVers. So they would have to include a lot of consumer-proofing in an already (perhaps overly) complex system. But that at least is a more or less reliable estimate and 2000 cycles over ten years or so seems reasonable.

So even though Im currently running a solar/lithium system successfully, and even though Thor has resources I can only dream of, I agree with those who say, “yes, nice concept, maybe in the future”.
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:44 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by RightUR View Post
I know some like Thor and I know many don't, so let's set that aside for a mo. What do you think about droping the diesel genny for lithium and solar power?

Read it here:

https://newatlas.com/tuscany-generat...concept/59029/
Having a “lithium only system” without a generator is a major mistake.

If you need to run the AC roof unit for over 6-10 hours, you'll find yourself running your main diesel engine to charge the lithium battery pack. Manufacturers attempted to force this same high idle charging scheme on Mercedes chassis and Mercedes Benz ended up issuing a "Stop Notice" on using their engine for any stationary lithium charging or any auto-start systems since it results in damage to the engine and turbo and may cause damage to the DPF.
Also when you get back on the road again, this idling causes excessive "Forced Regeneration of the DPF”. Keep in mind, a forced regeneration will waste 2-3 gallons of raw diesel fuel for each event.

I just authored an in-depth article on “Lithium Charging Verses Generators” I provided a link below.

Lithium & 2nd Alternators Verses Onan Generators - Mike Mas

Enjoy Mike
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:46 PM   #64
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This coach is designed clearly for someone who is resort jumping. If you plan on camping where you need to run your AC all night then obviously you will either be plugged in (most cost effective) or you will need a gen. I dont know many people who pack up and head on down to Phoenix every May to dry camp and enjoy the 115 degree heat.

If your living the boondocking life style you already have this figured out. If your driving this rig, the alternator is going to keep you charged up and the AC cranking until you get to your next destination resort where you can plug in.

The amount of solar they have on this thing is laughable. I would think on a rig this size you could easily work in 2000w of solar. (166 amps @ 12v rough math)

I dry camp all the time and unless I have to run the AC or I get stuck with 2 cloudy days, I can go without a gen.
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Old 05-17-2019, 02:01 PM   #65
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It feels like they are rushing to be first to market without thinking their market through. Perhaps this should be a more conservative offering targeted towards a younger audience—environmentally conscious millennials in class B’s and travel trailers for example. I have no doubt some evolution of this technology will be the future of the industry—probably sooner than most of us think. I’d love to live old enough be part of it. But I also remember a very expensive HiFi Betamax in my distant past. I’m not ready to be an early adapter this time around.
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Old 05-17-2019, 03:28 PM   #66
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LOL. A little Extreme aren't we. Hail storm, lol. IF I was that pessimistic I would have never bought an RV. Anyway are you still talking about the Lithium Genny or just straight up Solar? Are you talking about just Boondocking or Campground too. (BTW I don't boondock, but I respect other folk's desire/choice to do so)

Yeah, I'm extreme. Our coach is all electric, and we live in it full time, so having reliable electric power really isn't an option.

Never been a fan of the newest shiny object and never will be. -Paul



I really don't see that as extreme
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:06 PM   #67
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Having a “lithium only system” without a generator is a major mistake.
Enjoy Mike
This is certainly true for Class B coaches, and any A or C with insufficient solar, and definitely true if relying on engine idling to generate power. However with sufficient solar power, as noted in my above posts, its perfectly feasible, reliable, safe, and efficient.

My son did away with his generator on his fifth wheel with just over 1200w of solar, and with 1890 on my class C I never used the generator. So it can be done, but as Thor is demonstrating, a viable commercially available system is unlikely to appear on the market any time soon. With all that roof space, why limit the solar output to 540w? Weird.

Also in favor of designing and building your own system is your choice of components. You don't have to accept the cheap failure-prone components found in factory offerings. Instead you can buy “the best” and still pay a lot less by taking charge of your power supply system.

Probably the biggest draw-back of lithium systems is the cost of commercially available batteries. So far I haven't seen any priced at what I consider reasonable, so as Mike points out in his article, it is pretty much a luxury for most folks at this point. Repurposing an electric car battery is a great alternative, but it is also a fairly technical effort, and only an option if you really understand these systems.

But all that said, yes you can replace your generator with the right combination of solar/battery/inverter equipment. Even so, I didn't remove my generator for back-up and re-sale reasons.
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Old 05-17-2019, 05:10 PM   #68
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Standard disclaimer - I haven't read every post here.

But, my solar/inverter/lithium set up (Victron 24/3000, 6 315w LG panels, and 2/3 of a Nissan Leaf battery pack reconfigured..) runs the AC all day and I never use the genny anymore.

Ill still keep hauling the thing around in spite of the unnecessary weight because I like back-up, although it, like shore power, cant fully charge the batteries - only the panels can. My son has a similar set-up on his fifth-wheel (but with Hyundai batteries I think) , but only four panels and he has removed his generator with no issues.

So yes its possible, and while most people like to park in the shade we are always happy with sites with good sun. But I would be reluctant to buy manufacturer’s package system without some serious research. Also I have around $5000 in my system and from what Ive read, the Thor option has a somewhat higher premium.

For me its as much a hobby (if not more) as it is a matter of economical power, or being all green and happy for the few moments Im not destroying the planet or whatever. Probably the biggest benefit is having quiet, full power, when not in the presence of hook-ups. I know the dogs appreciate it when we are dining or shopping...
Wondering why your Victron cannot fully charge up your batteries?
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:58 PM   #69
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Its a 24v inverter/charger (24/3000), good for 28.8v (absorption) so thats all I can get out of 110v whether its from shore power or the genset. I configured my batteries at 32.8v (2 banks of 12 cells at a little over 2.7v) so only my panels provide enough power to get them to 100%. Just how it worked out breaking up the nissan battery pack. Pic is the system with 1 bank of batteries.
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Old 05-17-2019, 07:08 PM   #70
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The technology is interesting for sure but I’m not sold on not having a genie. And I dislike Thor in general so maybe if someone else was introducing it I would be more receptive. Thor couldn’t figure out how to keep my bedroom door from falling off while driving down the road.
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