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Old 10-25-2012, 12:30 AM   #1
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Tiffin Allegro bus -new 45' floor plan vs Entegra Cornerstone

I'm a newbie - yes first time buyer but I want to do it right - with a coach I can keep for years and not have to upgrade. I have received so much info from all of you on here I thank you. I've been scouring your blogs and with buying guides and dealer visits I feel as smart as a lot of salespersons about their particular coach. There is a very valuable comparison of Tiffin/Newmar/Entegra which I have already read through and nearly memorized . Early this week I received a new floorplan for a Tiffin Allegro 45' bus 1 1/2 baths. What a beauty and perfect new well needed floorplan update. The other option I have is an Entegra Cornerstone.Today I went to the dealer and now want to decide between these two. Different coaches but each has its significant pros. The floorplan of the Tiffin is amazing. The Entegra is a huge value and very high end feeling coach.

I looked at a Cornerstone that was sold but I could tour around it. It was very impressive. The only other vehicle on the lot to test drive was a 2013 42' Aspire which had independent suspension. Aside from some general floorplan issues I had with the Cornerstone (which are going to be modifed at a dealer level) it was all good. The only mechanical issue I had with the Aspire test drive honestly was the steering was very loose. The coach wandered on the road (there was no wind, travelling at about 55-60mph) and I found myself having to concentrate on it severely. The Tiffin Bus didnt have this issue at the same speeds. I pointed it out to a factory rep who was with us. Perhaps it was just a nuance...maybe a problem in the sterring...but it was pretty noticeable to me and see this as a potential wear me out driving problem and a significant flaw

My 2nd option is the new 45LP plan on the Allegro Bus. It just started shipping a few weeks ago. Its a 45' coach , basically a Zephyr floorplan and length. Same mechanical specs. 1 1/2 baths. Kitchen is back of living area on Drivers side now (not passenger), L shape sofa sleeper in front of that on drivers side. Behind the passenger seat is the Entertainment center with FP , small 52" sofa or 2 lounge chairs or 1 lounge with pull out table/cabinet . Dining area behind that and behind that is Fridge. Bedroom and bath are also reversed. Bed is on Passenger side instead of drivers. Has a walk in closet in the back with washer dryer, folding cabinet shelf and drawers. This floorplan is ideal Its a ZEPHYR now but in a bus and the price is exactly the same as the 43 LP to the penny.

But I can't skip the Cornerstone niceties and some innovative technology - i'm a techno geek. The ipad Coach automation and the distance sensors and just the smell of leather and wood inside, like a library - I'm ready to order one or the other.
Tiffins service I hear is just beyond great. Entegra's 2 year warranty and offer to help me with service anywhere I feel comfortable is also terrific. This purchase so far is harder than buying a house!
Any thoughts to help me make a decision would be appreciated . You all have been great - by the way the Entegra factory rep (national sales manager) told me he reads this blog daily - so they are listening to you
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:28 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdostal
I'm a newbie - yes first time buyer but I want to do it right - with a coach I can keep for years and not have to upgrade. I have received so much info from all of you on here I thank you. I've been scouring your blogs and with buying guides and dealer visits I feel as smart as a lot of salespersons about their particular coach. There is a very valuable comparison of Tiffin/Newmar/Entegra which I have already read through and nearly memorized . Early this week I received a new floorplan for a Tiffin Allegro 45' bus 1 1/2 baths. What a beauty and perfect new well needed floorplan update. The other option I have is an Entegra Cornerstone.Today I went to the dealer and now want to decide between these two. Different coaches but each has its significant pros. The floorplan of the Tiffin is amazing. The Entegra is a huge value and very high end feeling coach.

I looked at a Cornerstone that was sold but I could tour around it. It was very impressive. The only other vehicle on the lot to test drive was a 2013 42' Aspire which had independent suspension. Aside from some general floorplan issues I had with the Cornerstone (which are going to be modifed at a dealer level) it was all good. The only mechanical issue I had with the Aspire test drive honestly was the steering was very loose. The coach wandered on the road (there was no wind, travelling at about 55-60mph) and I found myself having to concentrate on it severely. The Tiffin Bus didnt have this issue at the same speeds. I pointed it out to a factory rep who was with us. Perhaps it was just a nuance...maybe a problem in the sterring...but it was pretty noticeable to me and see this as a potential wear me out driving problem and a significant flaw

My 2nd option is the new 45LP plan on the Allegro Bus. It just started shipping a few weeks ago. Its a 45' coach , basically a Zephyr floorplan and length. Same mechanical specs. 1 1/2 baths. Kitchen is back of living area on Drivers side now (not passenger), L shape sofa sleeper in front of that on drivers side. Behind the passenger seat is the Entertainment center with FP , small 52" sofa or 2 lounge chairs or 1 lounge with pull out table/cabinet . Dining area behind that and behind that is Fridge. Bedroom and bath are also reversed. Bed is on Passenger side instead of drivers. Has a walk in closet in the back with washer dryer, folding cabinet shelf and drawers. This floorplan is ideal Its a ZEPHYR now but in a bus and the price is exactly the same as the 43 LP to the penny.

But I can't skip the Cornerstone niceties and some innovative technology - i'm a techno geek. The ipad Coach automation and the distance sensors and just the smell of leather and wood inside, like a library - I'm ready to order one or the other.
Tiffins service I hear is just beyond great. Entegra's 2 year warranty and offer to help me with service anywhere I feel comfortable is also terrific. This purchase so far is harder than buying a house!
Any thoughts to help me make a decision would be appreciated . You all have been great - by the way the Entegra factory rep (national sales manager) told me he reads this blog daily - so they are listening to you
Just curious. Why did you eliminate Newmar?
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:03 AM   #3
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IMHO you can't make a bad decision with either coach. I have one question, I believe the Cornerstone has a full wall slide on drivers side. Just had our coach in for routine service at local RV dealer looked at Tiffin Bus, it did not have the full wall slide. Maybe the new 45 does? I have read recently minor issues on the Cornerstone design, ie: no medicine cabinet aft, nor drawers for storage which the Jayco people are correcting. I would want those simple modifications. Bob Tiffins reputation in the industry is unsurpassed. When purchasing so called "high end" inquire about your dealers customer reviews, their ability to offer full service, and their willingness to work out the bugs after purchase. This will make the purchase and life much more palatable. But most important price point is not your major concern. Buy the floor plan you love! Of course all the multitude of mechanical issues related to weight vs HP etc come into play. But hey, at this point it is assumed due diligence has been performed! See you on the road!

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Old 10-25-2012, 10:09 AM   #4
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2013 Cornerstone Review:

RVcruzer.com - 2013 Entegra Cornerstone Review

2013 Allegro Bus Price List

http://www.rvcruzer.com/pricing/2013_BusPricing.pdf

Entegra Build Process

RVcruzer.com - Entegra Coach Construction Overview

He also did a direct comparison betewwn Tiffin, Entegra, and I think Fleetwood, but I did not see it on his site. Look around or ask him. VERY enlightening.
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:01 AM   #5
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why I eliminated Newmar from the list

I removed Newmar from the 3 pack for a couple reasons but probably prone to my newbieness and I had to eventually go to 2 because I had to make a decision.
The Newmar Dutch Star I drove did not have as good a ride as the Tiffin nor Entgra. Also this may sound trivial but the turn signal was so far below the steering wheel I had to take my hand off the wheel to turn it on and off to do a simple lane change. Now I realize I'm not going to be doing Mario Andrettis down the road with multiple lane changes but it was an irritant. The right side mirror also was not completely unobstructed. And most importantly the coach had a lot of rattles and air noises for a brand new 2013.
There were many positives as for floorplan but since the Tiffin 45LP came out it really did take the Newmar out of the picture for a better floorplan. And the Cornerstone hands down beats them all for quality and amenities and option availability.
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:18 PM   #6
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Hmmm....

Any coach you buy you should driive first. Preferably for more than an hour. Not the same or a similar coach, the coach.

If it doesn't feel "right" for you to drive, walk away.

And don't rule out a gently used coach. Even if money wasn't a concern, the plain simple facts that someone else has all ready dealt with working out the bugs, and it is right there for you to gothru, test, and drive, is worth a lot.

I don't see any monaco's, fleetwoods, or winnebago# on your list?
All 3 make some fine machines.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:04 PM   #7
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Although it seems as though price is not an issue, if you love the Tiffin floorplan and found it pretty comparable, there IS about a $150,000 difference in price (MSRP $420 vs $ 580K).

Also consider delivery time - BIG issue - I believe Entegra is still running 9 months or more for delivery on new orders - vs 8-10 weeks on Tiffin.

On the Newmar, you might want to check out their Mountain Aire - it is a more fair comparison at MSRP about $450K - and they have an outstanding reputation, and offer MANY custom modifications choices. The 4319 and the 4347 are closest to the Tiffin 45LP

Check out the Tiffin Owner's Forum for known problems, but the Bus is a beauty!

Enjoy!

Kathryn
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 38 Special View Post
2013 Cornerstone Review:

RVcruzer.com - 2013 Entegra Cornerstone Review

2013 Allegro Bus Price List

http://www.rvcruzer.com/pricing/2013_BusPricing.pdf

Entegra Build Process

RVcruzer.com - Entegra Coach Construction Overview

He also did a direct comparison betewwn Tiffin, Entegra, and I think Fleetwood, but I did not see it on his site. Look around or ask him. VERY enlightening.

Not so sure on that Bus pricing list ...

Did a Google search and found three different dealers listing MSRP at $416K-$419K, NOT $383K

Kathryn
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdostal
I'm a newbie - yes first time buyer but I want to do it right - with a coach I can keep for years and not have to upgrade. I have received so much info from all of you on here I thank you. I've been scouring your blogs and with buying guides and dealer visits I feel as smart as a lot of salespersons about their particular coach. There is a very valuable comparison of Tiffin/Newmar/Entegra which I have already read through and nearly memorized . Early this week I received a new floorplan for a Tiffin Allegro 45' bus 1 1/2 baths. What a beauty and perfect new well needed floorplan update. The other option I have is an Entegra Cornerstone.Today I went to the dealer and now want to decide between these two. Different coaches but each has its significant pros. The floorplan of the Tiffin is amazing. The Entegra is a huge value and very high end feeling coach.

I looked at a Cornerstone that was sold but I could tour around it. It was very impressive. The only other vehicle on the lot to test drive was a 2013 42' Aspire which had independent suspension. Aside from some general floorplan issues I had with the Cornerstone (which are going to be modifed at a dealer level) it was all good. The only mechanical issue I had with the Aspire test drive honestly was the steering was very loose. The coach wandered on the road (there was no wind, travelling at about 55-60mph) and I found myself having to concentrate on it severely. The Tiffin Bus didnt have this issue at the same speeds. I pointed it out to a factory rep who was with us. Perhaps it was just a nuance...maybe a problem in the sterring...but it was pretty noticeable to me and see this as a potential wear me out driving problem and a significant flaw

My 2nd option is the new 45LP plan on the Allegro Bus. It just started shipping a few weeks ago. Its a 45' coach , basically a Zephyr floorplan and length. Same mechanical specs. 1 1/2 baths. Kitchen is back of living area on Drivers side now (not passenger), L shape sofa sleeper in front of that on drivers side. Behind the passenger seat is the Entertainment center with FP , small 52" sofa or 2 lounge chairs or 1 lounge with pull out table/cabinet . Dining area behind that and behind that is Fridge. Bedroom and bath are also reversed. Bed is on Passenger side instead of drivers. Has a walk in closet in the back with washer dryer, folding cabinet shelf and drawers. This floorplan is ideal Its a ZEPHYR now but in a bus and the price is exactly the same as the 43 LP to the penny.

But I can't skip the Cornerstone niceties and some innovative technology - i'm a techno geek. The ipad Coach automation and the distance sensors and just the smell of leather and wood inside, like a library - I'm ready to order one or the other.
Tiffins service I hear is just beyond great. Entegra's 2 year warranty and offer to help me with service anywhere I feel comfortable is also terrific. This purchase so far is harder than buying a house!
Any thoughts to help me make a decision would be appreciated . You all have been great - by the way the Entegra factory rep (national sales manager) told me he reads this blog daily - so they are listening to you
Neither coach has a wall slide. The Tiffin 45' Allegro Bus is built on a Powerglide Chassis (the Zeyphr is on a Spartan K2)with a ISL Cummins 450 HP, 1,250 ft lbs torque.The Cornerstone is built on a Spartan K3 with a Cummins ISX 600 HP with 1,850 ft lbs torque. Big big difference in power, towing capacity, and drivability.

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Old 10-25-2012, 02:38 PM   #10
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Gotta have the full wall slide!, makes a huge difference in livability. Tiffin, Entegrs, great coaches but!!
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:42 PM   #11
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The final net price difference net between the LP45 Allegro Bus and Entegra is $89000. Neither have full slides. Something I"m okay with
Working with some dealers who have Entegras on order so they can convert a current order to my specific order which brings to probably a 3rd week of January, early Feb delivery. Tiffin is definitely shorter but I can live with a Feb delivery to get what I want

I also thought used but so many new things but the 45LP Bus is brand new so no used ones out there.

I just hung up with Tiffin corp sales manager here locally who played devils advocate and I did the same yesterday with the Entegra corp sales manager. Bottom line is eeking its way out. Entegra is a fine luxury coach and still finding it's niche' as well as service network for the most part. Their design has lots of whistles and bells and lots of bang for the buck. Tiffin service levels are more convenient and people just ooze enthusiasm over it. Tiffin was concerned about the financial longevity of Entegra as its output doesnt support it's solvency. Entegra recently dropped the pricing on their Cornerstone by $70K and improved the chassis to Spartan 3 from the 2. So definitely the value is there....it smells like a library inside the coach with the fine woods and leathers. I dont want to be hit with a Monaco or Country Coach disaster but I think with it being part of Jayco , Entegra won't see that problem. I would admit they are going through growing pains though. In the end its what I feel comfortable with I know and what coach works for me as I plan to keep this one a while.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdostal View Post
...Tiffin was concerned about the financial longevity of Entegra as its output doesnt support it's solvency.... the value is there... but I think with it being part of Jayco , Entegra won't see that problem.
I think Tiffin raised a legitimate concern - but also think you are correct that Jayco will carry it.

And Jan - Feb is not bad at all.

Just out of curiosity, which model Cornerstone are you looking at?

We are all looking forward to hearing your final choice, and then ... pictures! LOL!

Kathryn
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayobx
Gotta have the full wall slide!, makes a huge difference in livability. Tiffin, Entegrs, great coaches but!!
Hey Claybox, I agree, we love our full wall, but after ours popped out doing 65mph I can't help but wonder if the engineering still is not %100 on them. Dealer told me it weighs over 5000 lbs? I know they have been around for some time, but that is one big hole in the coach. We looked at the bus (QBH I think) before we got ours. We love the floor plan on ours, but we have kids still so the bath and a half with booth was necessary.
Two great choices this gentlemen has chosen, I love the drama!
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:00 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Kathryn View Post
Not so sure on that Bus pricing list ...

Did a Google search and found three different dealers listing MSRP at $416K-$419K, NOT $383K

Kathryn
That is the base, before the optons are added. Look again.

Also the selling price at the most aggressive dealers is 25 to 26 percent off list.

Several threads on http://www.TiffinRVNetwork.com about those dealers.
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