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Old 02-24-2017, 09:52 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by dphaynes View Post
Update: On Feb 1 with help from Jim Smith @ Tiffin I talked with M&M coach in Chino CA, which is both a Tiffin and a Freightliner shop and they said they want to make the coach right and would fit me in regardless of their schedule.

Unfortunately my already planned vacation was starting that week so I couldn't take it over right away.

So now I've been holed up since Tuesday in an RV park about 15 minutes from M&M and I can't get either Jim Smith or M&M to respond to emails (sent Sunday, Wednesday and 7am today) I called M&M today and left a message around 3pm, no call back.

I've been patient and understanding, even prioritized my list of issues so they didn't spend time working on stuff that wasn't a priority if they were going out of their way to jam my coach into their regular schedule.

Not sure what more I could do...but really running out of patience.
I may be missing something, but if you have been 15 minutes away from M&M since Tuesday, is there some reason you are leaving messages and sending emails rather than making an in-person visit?

Also I understand that vacations can be important, but it sometimes comes down to priorities. We have had vacation plans screwed up the last 2-1/2 years because of three trips to Red Bay for a major problem that could only be done in Red Bay.
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Old 02-25-2017, 10:52 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by BobGed View Post
I may be missing something, but if you have been 15 minutes away from M&M since Tuesday, is there some reason you are leaving messages and sending emails rather than making an in-person visit?

Also I understand that vacations can be important, but it sometimes comes down to priorities. We have had vacation plans screwed up the last 2-1/2 years because of three trips to Red Bay for a major problem that could only be done in Red Bay.
Well, party because I still work full time (and then some) and my teams are spread over 6 time zones so there isn't a 'lunch hour', but mostly because I shouldn't *HAVE* to go stand in someone's face just to get the issues addressed, particularly when previous interactions were via timely email exchanges and phone calls. It's the 21st century, email/voice mail is the least disruptive form of contact since the recipient can determine order and priority for handling it.

As for vacation plans, a friend was flying in from out of state specifically for the vacation. It had been planned months ago and there is no valid reason for me to have to blow off a long planned vacation a few days before it starts just to hurry up and get service before they lose interest. If getting a new coach sorted out was a priority for them on the Feb 2, it should still be a priority for them on Feb 19.

I don't think people understand how ridiculous it is in the 21st century to have to go out of the way to contact the president/owner/grand poobah of any company to get ordinary/typical work done.

I've worked on customer experience management systems for a long time. This is about as ****** a customer experience as it is possible to arrange and there's just no rational explanation for it. Getting warranty work done is an expected event that all Tiffin customers are going to experience at least once. Why do they make it so time consuming/frustrating/disorganized/unprofessional?
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Old 02-25-2017, 10:49 PM   #73
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I feel for the OP. We bought a new 2016 Winnebago Suncruiser from Camping World and on the first trip got quite the education. The CW dealer and service network is crap. The warranty that we thought we were going to justify the cost of new with is crap. I am a direct, but inherently polite kind of guy, but that did not help. Thankfully, I am very good at fixing things. Now that I have fixed my punch sheet, all is good. If I could not fix things, I would have pulled my hair out and sold the thing. Now that all is good, I realize it is what it is. In every forum I read similar stories from MULTIPLE manufacturers' products. I still very much enjoy my RV, have found peace when something new happens, have learned to scour IRV2 for help (which is truly a great resource), and now just kind of go with the flow. From all that I have seen and read, not sure I will buy a Tiffin even though they are in my back yard. Newmar and Entegra intrigue me. Two years of what I have experienced from CW and WB as a "warranty" is not particularly a selling point to me, but perhaps they are better? Who knows.
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Old 02-26-2017, 04:51 PM   #74
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I feel sorry for the OP. There appears to have been some shabby work noted in the smugmug pics. The woodwork and backsplash falling down are horrable . I thought Tiffin prided themselves with there wood work , they slipped up on the trim.
OP Is there anything good to report about the coach ( Not being a wise ### ) ?
I hope they fix U up !
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Old 02-27-2017, 11:04 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
I feel sorry for the OP. There appears to have been some shabby work noted in the smugmug pics. The woodwork and backsplash falling down are horrable . I thought Tiffin prided themselves with there wood work , they slipped up on the trim.
OP Is there anything good to report about the coach ( Not being a wise ### ) ?
I hope they fix U up !
Overall the coach is a very comfortable place to live when plugged in. The electric floors and electric hot water are silent and combined with the electric fireplace those can keep the coach warm and comfy even in very cold weather. If you can avoid running the Aquahot (because it sounds like a power drill running periodically in the basement) it's excellent that way. It looks very nice overall. The chassis has been pretty much maintenance free, haven't had to do anything other than check fluid levels.

It's so quiet when driving down the highway the main sounds you'll hear are wind whistling in the windshield wipers and around the mirrors (only when wind is blowing from the right direction) and the very faint sounds of the air suspension when it vents air as you hit a bump.

It's fast to set up. If I'm in a hurry I can set up/tear down everything (including connect/disconnect the car via BlueOx towbar) in less than 20 minutes. I think if there were a competition it could probably be done in 10 minutes. I have a checklist on my phone, which helps.

I am very pleased with my choice of options - they pretty much fill the functions I expected. I'm doubly pleased with Tiffin's mistake of putting in the L shaped couch (they ordered the wrong part and I didn't notice it until the build was almost complete) The recliner in front of the fireplace is great, I wouldn't have liked the swapped position without the L shaped couch.

Fuel economy since I picked it up (haven't reset it since) is steadily increasing, currently at 8.7mpg after 7,000+ miles. That's towing a Honda CRV the whole time, mostly at 55 to 60mph and that's Wisconsin to Oregon via Montana, then Oregon to Nevada to southern Arizona and to New Mexico and back to Yuma and Nevada then to Chino CA. I've had head winds, very tall and steep mountain passes and I don't hesitate to tromp on the loud pedal when needed. If I babied it and stuck to 50mph I'd probably be able to get 10mpg without too much effort. When I first picked it up and was driving across Wisconsin on 50mph secondary highways it was showing 10.6mpg for quite a while.

It's f'n huge, but it is easy to drive. It's my first RV but from what I've seen I don't think it's that much more difficult to maneuver than ones half its size. It's obviously a bit harder, but I think that you have all the same issues as with a small one - you have corners and overhead clearances you can't see/judge easily in either case.

I'm running solo so I plan to remedy the visibility/maneuvering issues with a handful of external wireless cameras. In particular I want three at the front and three at the back, one on each corner facing down towards the corners, and one at the back with the view of the roof looking forward and one at the front looking backwards (for watching tree limb clearance)

The in-dash satnav is brilliant - typical Garmin, not a great user interface and you're screwed if you want to make it work the way a normal human being (i.e. not a cartographer/GIS weenie) would but the warnings about exceeding bridge or road weights, sharp turns and narrow roads etc. are worth its weight in gold.

With 7K miles under my belt I did both Las Vegas downtown traffic (after a missed turn on the interstate, went right down past Sands Expo in rush hour traffic on Friday before a 4 day weekend) and SoCal traffic insanity and it drives easily enough that the only real issue was the traffic density - the bulk of the coach didn't really add much to the stress. It may actually have made it less stressful since people generally will give right of way to 18 tons worth of hardware trying to change lanes

The only constant nag/annoyance about driving the coach is that thought in the back of the mind about not being able to back up with the towbar if I make a wrong turn. I've only been forced to disconnect so I can turn around 3 times now, and none were in terrible scenarios, had plenty of room and no heavy traffic...though one of them did result in me getting stuck, buried to the rims in a dirt parking lot



That's the one bit of insight I've never read anywhere that I'd pass on to folks: When you're doing a 3 point turn on dirt/gravel DO NOT turn the front wheels while sitting still! I should have turned the wheels while I was still driving forward instead of coming to a stop and then turning them. The weight and twisting motion of the front tires broke through the hard pack of the parking lot and when I tried to reverse it simply didn't move because the front tires were at an angle and dug in - and you *cannot hear a thing* when the rear wheels spin in soft ground. It literally took less than 10 seconds to bury it that deep...tried to reverse, it didn't move, stop, put transmission into neutral and then reverse again (just in case I had done something stupid) and press lightly on the gas pedal again...poof, instant towing job needed.

Coach-Net rocked BTW, had a guy there in a couple of hours and he had me out in about 15 minutes - didn't even require a big tow truck, just a standard one was able to winch me out...all he needed was a photo of the license plate and the VIN, not even any paperwork to sign! They've got a long-term customer here.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:08 PM   #76
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Success, almost

M&M Coach Specialists went way out of their way to get everything done for me.

I'm still shy 2 docking lights and a new set of wiper blades but they'll ship them to me once they get them.

They addressed everything else on my list and then some. Everything except the docking lights are working to my satisfaction.

Wipers were a loose connection in the wheel. I'm hoping that's also the cause of the flickering dash lights because they haven't been flickering lately so I couldn't show them. The wipers misbehaved perfectly - fortunately otherwise they'd have thought I was crazy.

Apparently Tiffin just uses silicone as a pseudo adhesive for the backsplash. It's now stuck on with epoxy.

They also did the power steering hose recall work. You wouldn't think a hose would be a big deal but it goes from the engine all the way up to the steering box. The book says 5.6 hours labor.

I'm ridiculously happy just to have the wipers and the microwave fixed, all the other stuff is a bonus. I didn't realize how much the "background noise" of all the coach issues was weighing me down, I feel way better now!

They also managed to do some extra work I dumped on them at the last minute including installing a pair of FanTastic vent covers with bug screens so that my fans don't fill up with bees like they have been, and mounting the repeater for my TPM. At the last minute they realized I was slightly overdue for a service, so they did that as well.

The only downer is the generator has an oil leak and it's not at the filter, it's in something that bolts on to the block apparently. I've got to take that to a Cummins service center. More waiting for an appointment...sigh.

Anyway, at last everything in the coach is functioning as expected, no rattles, no crap flopping loose or falling down.

Our interaction got off to a rough start but in the end I can't recommend the guys at M&M highly enough, they were all very competent, never once got the feeling I needed to oversee anything. They let me stay in the lot while the work was being done...and to top it off every one of them was the sort you'd enjoy having a beer. Really good and hard working folks. There's a reason they've got coaches stacked up wall to wall here even though they don't advertise.

Their shop is really easy to get to with very wide streets all the way there, but inside the lot with the way all the coaches are stacked in a tiny space and they've acquired some impressive backing/driving skills I bet they could parallel park this thing in a compact car space with room left over.

Heading for NV/AZ in the morning. The only thing I found cheap/affordable in California is grocery shopping. I took on a full load of groceries at Sprouts Farmers Market tonight and it was all good stuff (i.e. expensive) I thought for sure I'd come real close to $400, maybe even slightly over, but it was only $267.

Everything else here is spendy. Even just staying in regional parks with full hookups it's $40/night. Gas is close to $3/gal, didn't look at diesel as I filled up in NV before I came over here because I knew it'd be higher.

Finally, I can slouch about in something that works the way its supposed to!
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Old 03-11-2017, 07:31 AM   #77
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RE: Flickering dash lights

I called FL this week because I have FL class in June and I've, once again, experienced the flickering dash lights issue on this current trip. We're currently in TX. What I wanted to know from FL, was could I get my dash lights looked at while I was there for the class. They said they were aware of the flickering issue and there was suppose to be a fix by mid February, but that timeframe was pushed out. They said I would know if the fix was complete by the time I was at class and would be able to get it resolved at that time. In the FL discussions, as has been discussed in these forums, it sounds like an electronic biasing design issue with the dash lights. Not sure how they would fix that short of replacing the instrumentation cluster. Time will tell.
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Old 03-12-2017, 05:09 PM   #78
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RE: Flickering dash lights

I called FL this week because I have FL class in June and I've, once again, experienced the flickering dash lights issue on this current trip. We're currently in TX. What I wanted to know from FL, was could I get my dash lights looked at while I was there for the class. They said they were aware of the flickering issue and there was suppose to be a fix by mid February, but that timeframe was pushed out. They said I would know if the fix was complete by the time I was at class and would be able to get it resolved at that time. In the FL discussions, as has been discussed in these forums, it sounds like an electronic biasing design issue with the dash lights. Not sure how they would fix that short of replacing the instrumentation cluster. Time will tell.
Thanks much for that info! They haven't been doing it to me often but when they do it's usually an inopportune moment on a dark road.

I left Chino yesterday and I'm back today. The windshield wipers work perfectly...when the coach is sitting still. I was on I-15 on the outskirts of Barstow when I tried to clean some bugs off the windshield...and they were right back to their old tricks, random parking, intermittent not working. Grrrrrrrrr!

Drove it back to M&M, put it up on the jacks and damned if I cannot get them to misbehave now. I'll try driving it around in a while and see if it's engine running or speed related or whatever.

Also discovered that the central vac doesn't work now. I think while they were doing the power steering hose they must have jiggled whichever connector it was that I jiggled to make it work when it failed the first time. I'm not sure which connector it was, I just wiggled everything I could find on both sides of the basement that looked like it might be related to the vacuum and that got it working again the last time. It's been working fine since.

Thanks again for the info!
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:34 PM   #79
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Tiffin windshield wiper banging

We had this problem with our 2015 Allegro Bus on a trip south recently!
During a major rainstorm our wipers began to bang loudly. I pulled into the nearest rest area and found that there were 2 - 1/4" bolts holding the wiper motor on and 1 of them fell out and the other was barely hanging the on!
The motor bracket is prep'd for 1/4" bolts and the bracket connecting the motor to the chassis is prep'd for 5/16" bolts. The 1/4" lock nuts are on the 5/16 side and this does not provide the surface area for the lock nuts to dig into. I drilled out the 1/4" holes and put 5/16" bolts and lock nuts on and this has solved the problem. I would have had a huge problem if the other bolt had come out and the motor starting flopping around!
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:02 PM   #80
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RE: Banging wipers, Flickering Dashlights: SOLVED
Went to Camp Freightliner first week of June. While there, got 12 month maintenance done. Additionally, there was a software update (flash) that solved the wipers banging and there was another flash that solved the flickering dash light issue. So far, all is good! Safe travels!!
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:07 PM   #81
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Unhappy Wiper problem

I have a 2015 Phaeton. My driver's windshield wiper stop working. I removed the plastic cover on the base of the wiper to discover the splines on the wiper arm are stripped. I called the manufactor who told me to find the part number. It is made by Diesel Equipment out of Greensboro, NC. They insisted that I find a part number. I could not fine theirs but Tiffin. I called Tiffin and they said to call Diesel Equipment. The only thing they can do is send me a wiper arm, which I had to pay for. My problem is installing the new arm and stripping the splines. Is there a trick to putting the arm on without stripping the splines?
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