Tiffin warranty work and banging windshield wipers

[BobMontgomer]

I own a Thor Ace we bought from Bretz in Billings, and yes, they told me they will not work on a coach purchased elsewhere. Warranty work or no. I questioned Tiffin as we are considering one, and Bob Tiffin called me at home. He said if we purchased a Tiffin, new or used and could not find someone to fix it when we were on the road to call him (or the factory) and they would find someone close to where you are located to fix it... give Tiffin a call and let us know how it works out for you. 256-356-8661.

[BobGed]

Tiffin has authorized service centers throughout the west coast that I have found to be much easier and more knowledgeable to deal with than dealers.

Tom Forsythe Ph: 503-332-2296 is one of the west coast Tiffin field reps that I'm sure could recommend one or more of them in your area to help you.

Another Tiffin west coast contact is Josh Palmer, but I only have an email for him, and I don't know what area he covers: josh.palmer@tiffinmotorhomes

[DSL417]

Have to agree with the poster above...dealing with dealers is nothing short of frustrating. As you are still under warrantee, call Tiffin Customer Service and give them your itinerary and let them find a service facility for you.

BTW, I had a similar sound with my wipers, and I found that the spindle that the wiper rotates on had worn smooth. Try taking the windshield wiper off and see if you still have the sound. May be that a new wiper assembly is required, as was the case with mine.

[dphaynes]

Originally Posted by BobGed

Tiffin has authorized service centers throughout the west coast that I have found to be much easier and more knowledgeable to deal with than dealers.

Tom Forsythe Ph: 503-332-2296 is one of the west coast Tiffin field reps that I'm sure could recommend one or more of them in your area to help you.

Another Tiffin west coast contact is Josh Palmer, but I only have an email for him, and I don't know what area he covers: josh.palmer@tiffinmotorhomes

Thanks for the info! I'm saving it off as a backup!

Tiffin finally called me about my email late this morning, left voicemail saying they wanted to tell me which service center is best (which was what I requested) Unfortunately I was in meetings when they called and the meetings were back-to-back until after 2:00. By the time I called back the guy had gone home and the other guy I talked to said the first one probably had it figured out

Which, though I'm glad they finally responded, is really not the sort of customer service I expect in...uh...what is this? 21st century? The guy apparently solved my problem, but now I can't see the solution until our schedules work out and he can tell me the solution on the phone? Really? He couldn't write it down? Email it? Leave it in a voice mail? :\

I'm a picky bastard because that's all I've done for the last 13 years is work on software for customer relations management (or as the young whippersnappers would have it, CX for "customer experience")

If they had a proper CRM system, it would be just a matter of me filling in a form, a ticket gets created, it gets routed to the most appropriate representative. They can respond to the ticket whenever they have something useful to add, and I can update the ticket with additional information such as the fact that I found the great wads of plastic jammed in the works. I could see what the status of my ticket is any time that's convenient to me, and they could know if/when they've resolved the issue, how many customers are waiting for solutions at any given time, how long customers have been waiting for problem resolution etc.

Handling it that way, they wouldn't have to waste time listening to my problem descriptions on the phone each time I call or talk to someone new, and I wouldn't have to waste my time on the phone repeating descriptions of the symptoms (with all the usual "Oh, and I forgot it also did this..." stuff that makes troubleshooting the problem more time consuming for them)

Pretty basic stuff. Even the government has gotten around to using such systems. You know you're behind the times when even the plodding US government has beaten you to the punch.

From my observations of the coach build, sales, website and their customer interface, they've grown an organic process that can get RVs built with moderate success, but they've completely failed to evolve, and only things that evolve can excel.

They build a decent product, but if outfits like Honda, Toyota or Kia ever entered the Class A RV market, Tiffin (and almost all the other existing brands) would shrivel up and disappear pronto. They couldn't evolve fast enough.

Weather is supposed to be better tomorrow and Saturday, I'm going to finish loading up and then see if I can get the wipers to at least not slam against the superstructure while I get it to whatever service center he's got in mind.

Of course I need to have them ship the replacement microwave and the closet light switch to whatever service center he's got in mind, and apparently it can take up to 5 days to get the microwave delivered so I've got lots of time to watch weather reports and see how much snow we're getting in the mountains already.

Total noob driver, almost 18 tons of hardware rolling on pure highway tires with straight grooves in them and a bunch of snow on a steep and winding mountain road. What could possibly go wrong? (insert favorite Wile E. Coyote imagery here)

"Hey! A metal box full of Acme dynamite and a giant Acme horseshoe magnet that fits around my neck! Tanx! It's just what I needed!"

[dphaynes]

Found the source of another problem with the coach today. While I was putting stuff away in the bathroom I heard a very loud scrabbling and sometimes banging noise in the overhead. I thought "Man that's a huge bird that has landed on the roof"

Then out from the crappy cheapo looking trim around the skylight over the shower...comes a 5" long dragonfly, who is now inside the coach and buzzing angrily against the skylight trying to get out.

I'm thinking that if there are gaps up there big enough that a 5" dragonfly with about an 6" wingspan can get in, that just might be where my endless supply of flies and mosquitoes have been crossing the border.

The rough cut and unfinished skylight trim/skirt should be a source of embarrassment on Tiffin's part, but the *stupid* slide for the skylight cover with its metal on metal "slides" that make a horrific screeching noise every time is is moved should have gotten some engineer fired, tarred and feathered and had his/her birthday taken away. It'd take about $0.10 worth of teflon tape to at least stop it from waking up everyone in the coach and everyone in campsites on either side when it's operated :\

I'm going to be taking some video of that bit, just as soon as I see if I can capture the dragonfly and get it back outside. Hopefully it has tired itself out now...

[BobGed]

@dphaynes. As a new member to the Tiffin family there are some things you're going to just have to handle when you're dealing with them, and just grin a bare it.

They are definitely not a high tech operation. Bob Tiffin does not use a computer at all. Any emails sent to him go to his secretary who prints them out and puts them on his desk. However if he is in his office and not otherwise occupied he will always answer his phone (256) 356-8661 Ext 2206.

Their quality control leaves a lot to be desired, but their service is outstanding, many times covering items long out of warranty. They are not fast at anything, but they are very cooperative. If you ever get the chance to stop by Red Bay you'll see what I mean. Every individual there wants to see you leave satisfied.

They have an extensive network of authorized repair facilities around the country that are happy to work on Tiffin coaches, as they get paid fairly and quickly.

This time of year is always really busy as Red Bay is overrun with snowbirders stopping to get work done on their way south. so it can take some time to get return phone calls and emails. Ideal? No, but it is what it is.

So just relax and I can just about guarantee that you will eventually get everything taken care of to your satisfaction.

[twogypsies]

Originally Posted by BobGed

As a new member to the Tiffin family there are some things you're going to just have to handle when you're dealing with them, and just grin a bare it.

They are definitely not a high tech operation. Their quality control leaves a lot to be desired, but their service is outstanding, many times covering items long out of warranty. They are not fast....

I cannot understand folks raving about Tiffin for these reasons. If they had quality control none of these issues would surface.

[Crasher]

Originally Posted by twogypsies

I cannot understand folks raving about Tiffin for these reasons. If they had quality control none of these issues would surface.

Lets put it into perspective. I had a handful of things with our Tiffin Bus in the first year that my dealer handled quickly. It has never been back to the factory in three years. Now my son's 2016 Mountain Aire is another story. In the first eight months it was back to the factory three times for repair and correction of poor workmanship and quality control. 45 items in all. The third time, he insisted that Newmar come get the coach and bring it back full of fuel. To their credit, they did. If the OP feels frustrated with just a handfull of things, how do you think my son feels. Just last week the refrigerator screws sheared off and it rolled out into the kitchen. Each trip brings a new thrill.

[MRUSA14]

You need to decide. Do you want to gripe about the lack of service on a new quarter million dollar coach, or do you want to get it fixed? Griping about what should be doesn't get it fixed. In order to get it fixed, CALL do not write the factory and have them set up a service appointment for you somewhere along your route.

By the way, you are right about the poor service response, but being right about that puts you back exactly where you started. It does not advance you towards the goal of getting your coach fixed. What will advance you toward the goal is to telephone contact one individual in the factory's service department, and hold that individual responsible for a solution to your problems.

Been there.

[BobGed]

Originally Posted by twogypsies

I cannot understand folks raving about Tiffin for these reasons. If they had quality control none of these issues would surface.

And don't think that many of us Tiffin owners have not mentioned this to Bob, but nothing really changes.

I know I personally will never purchase another Tiffin, but that has to do with better construction techniques and materials used in other comparable brands.

[BRex45]

dphaynes,

By reading your posts it is obvious you are an articulate and intelligent guy. That being said, you don't seem to get it. The very poorest service one might find in the automotive industry is far better than the best service you will find in the RV industry. This is comparing new autos to new RV's and how each are inspected and warrantied.

The above is my opinion only but the RV industry is "cottage style" compared to the auto industry.

You might be continually unhappy with your purchase based on how you reacted to basic, minor new rig issues. I would sell it it and find something that is well built, well engineered and is backed by its maker 100%.


Something like a Prevost?

[dphaynes]

Originally Posted by BobGed

@dphaynes. As a new member to the Tiffin family there are some things you're going to just have to handle when you're dealing with them, and just grin a bare it.

They are definitely not a high tech operation. Bob Tiffin does not use a computer at all. Any emails sent to him go to his secretary who prints them out and puts them on his desk. However if he is in his office and not otherwise occupied he will always answer his phone (256) 356-8661 Ext 2206.

Their quality control leaves a lot to be desired, but their service is outstanding, many times covering items long out of warranty. They are not fast at anything, but they are very cooperative. If you ever get the chance to stop by Red Bay you'll see what I mean. Every individual there wants to see you leave satisfied.

They have an extensive network of authorized repair facilities around the country that are happy to work on Tiffin coaches, as they get paid fairly and quickly.

This time of year is always really busy as Red Bay is overrun with snowbirders stopping to get work done on their way south. so it can take some time to get return phone calls and emails. Ideal? No, but it is what it is.

So just relax and I can just about guarantee that you will eventually get everything taken care of to your satisfaction.

True, thanks. I learned that after talking to Bob and some other folks whose names I forget while I was down there watching the build. They run on a different time scale.

I disagree with them on the processes. I should be able to go to any dealer, explain the issue, and then any dealing with antique/outdated processes, lack of computer access etc. should become the dealer/service center's problem, not mine.

Honda, BMW and KTM dealers don't make excuses about what's going on behind the scenes when I have a problem with my car or bikes. I tell them x is broken, they order the part. If I'm on a road trip and stranded or in a hurry, they ask me if I'll pay the overnight shipping or whatever extra costs are involved. For all I know the president of Honda still uses a teletype to interface with his Macbook.

I guess that's the thing that irks me. They make excuses, or people have to make excuses for them. They advertise world-class product* and **service***, then it comes with a bunch of disclaimers

* Except when we're unable or unwilling to improve our processes
** Except where our dealers refuse to do warranty work
*** Unless you expect turnaround times less than 30 days
**** And don't bother us if it's our busy season because we've only been in business for 40 years and we still haven't learned how to manage our work load or staffing

Dunno about you, but I get yelled at if I make excuses for taking too long or doing sloppy work at my job. I'm not seeing a reason that Tiffin shouldn't be held to the higher standards they claim to work to.

I do hear what you're saying, and you're completely correct, just have to live with it. I'm being impatient mostly because I've got to get to Oregon, and it's already snowing on the mountain passes between here and there. It's my first coach and I now have a grand total of 2,400 miles behind the wheel, which means I know absolutely ****-all about how to drive the thing. I'd really like to get there while the roads are reasonably dry...particularly since I may or may not have working windshield wipers on the drive over. I'm hoping once I cut the masking tape and plastic out of the linkage they'll work properly, but hoping is a poor substitute for having a qualified mechanic pronouncing it daemon-free.

Maybe that's what I should do...an exorcism on it... "Out ye evil daemons of the wiper blades, spawn of bent linkages and defilers of bearings, ball and roller...begone foul creatures of road grime and bug splatter..."

I'm sure that'll get me to Oregon in one piece. It worked for...uh...for...umm...uh, wait, when was the last time invoking gods or daemons actually worked for anyone?

Okay, so I guess it's duct tape time again as I need a solution that actually works. Sigh. And I had the chanting and magic pentagrams all worked out in my head. It was going to be really impressive...woulda got a million views on youtube...

[dphaynes]

Originally Posted by BRex45

dphaynes,

By reading your posts it is obvious you are an articulate and intelligent guy. That being said, you don't seem to get it. The very poorest service one might find in the automotive industry is far better than the best service you will find in the RV industry. This is comparing new autos to new RV's and how each are inspected and warrantied.

The above is my opinion only but the RV industry is "cottage style" compared to the auto industry.

You might be continually unhappy with your purchase based on how you reacted to basic, minor new rig issues. I would sell it it and find something that is well built, well engineered and is backed by its maker 100%.


Something like a Prevost?

Oh, I get what it is...but if I was like a lot of people and followed your advice and just took it lying down, there'd be even less incentive for Tiffin to get off their butts and promptly fix the problems with my coach - and to fix the source of the problems so that other customers don't encounter the same problems.

IMO losing normal use of the wipers on an 80mph stretch of highway in a driving rain storm with high crosswinds and extremely low visibility and nowhere to safely pull over is not a minor issue, it's a failure in a safety critical system that could have had disastrous consequences.

So what specifically is wrong with holding Tiffin to the standards they claim they work to? They claim to provide great service. Dealers who say "piss off, you didn't buy it here so we won't work on it" or "You just bought it here today but 10 to 14 days is not enough advance notice for a follow-up service appointment because we've got more important work to do like winterizing other people's RVs" is not great service.

Tiffin should be called on their failure to provide the great service they claim to provide.

That's how to build good processes. That's how agile development works. You agree on how to measure results, then every couple of weeks you compare your actual results to what you said you were going to do, and if they don't match up you look for the reasons why. You alter your processes in a way that you think will correct the problems, and you measure again in 2 weeks. Constantly monitor output results in continuous improvement...but you can't improve your process without identifying and correcting your errors/failures.

If I were Bob Tiffin, I'd be annoyed by someone complaining endlessly (hey, why are all those fingers pointing at me?) but I'd be seriously mega pissed off by people condescending to me/my company. People who virtually pat Tiffin on the head and say "It's okay, we make exceptions and lower the bar for ol' Bob and his crew because they're just too old fashioned and they work too slow to keep up with modern practices"...that's genuine insult IMO.

I'll keep the coach, it will be a good one once all the bugs are sorted out, but I won't ever condescend to Tiffin. I'll just keep bitching until I see the great service they promised.

[BobMontgomer]

Originally Posted by BobGed

And don't think that many of us Tiffin owners have not mentioned this to Bob, but nothing really changes.

I know I personally will never purchase another Tiffin, but that has to do with better construction techniques and materials used in other comparable brands.

What brand a model do you consider better than Tiffin. This is a serious question. Thank you.