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Old 04-27-2015, 04:50 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by vettenuts View Post
I am reading this with a lump in my throat. Last summer, my left front was deflated to just over 40 psi during a 100 mile drive (this is one of the reasons I purchased a TPMS over the winter). I didn't know it at the time and found it when I got home (mistake #1). I then re-inflated to 95 psi when the tire cooled (mistake #2). Not realizing the tire should be inspected, I took the coach on a 3,500 mile trip to the upper peninsula of Michigan (mistake #3) a month later.

I called the tire facility this morning that originally installed the tires about inspecting this tire after reading some of the above information posted by Tireman9. The tire facility said they would do the inspection, but since I had driven it so far without an incident the tire is likely fine. We are leaving in two weeks for another trip. This time I will have my TPMS installed but I am thinking it might be worth it to have the tire inspected before we leave.

Thoughts?



Just shows how naive one can be to the complexities of these coaches. I know I am and am thankful to have a source of information with this forum.
The only real way to inspect tire that has been run deflated is to remove it from the wheel and inspect the inside carcass. I have taken off a few car tires that were run low and some had a pile of tiny rubber balls, which I presume were "burned" off of the overheated sidewalls. No way I'd ever run those tires again.
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Old 04-27-2015, 04:53 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by FlaRider View Post
Since you used to be a distributor for Pressure Pro and switching to TST. What didn't you like about Pressure Pro or what is better about TST?
Replaceable batteries in the 507 system.
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Old 04-27-2015, 06:10 PM   #101
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I discovered an interesting thing about my 507 system yesterday on my drive. The sensors indicated the ambient temperature and NOT the actual internal temperature of the tire. This is the first time I have been able to use my system since I got it because of a series of Murphy problems. The pressure rise was as expected, and a bit higher on the sun side than the shade. One consideration about valve stems not mentioned is the insulating factor, which I just discovered, for the external sensors. (Or is this just with the 507's?) I suspect I will get a psi alarm before I see a high temperature alarm.

I have three tire gauges. Two read close to one another and the other is out by about 6#. When I set the tire pressure to 110psi the TST's read 108 for most and 107 for one. I am calling this my normal start psi but using the TST as a tire gauge is out of the question. Not accurate enough to meet the +/- .5 psi requirement of the tires.

Another drawback with the TST is viewing the monitor in bright sunlight. It is impossible to read. I just put some tape over the sensor and the back light is on. I'll find out tomorrow if that helps.

Except for the problem reading the monitor in bright light, I am happy with the 507 system.

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Old 04-27-2015, 07:34 PM   #102
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The only real way to inspect tire that has been run deflated is to remove it from the wheel and inspect the inside carcass. I have taken off a few car tires that were run low and some had a pile of tiny rubber balls, which I presume were "burned" off of the overheated sidewalls. No way I'd ever run those tires again.
I had an unfortunate situation happen to me back in 2012 when I was still using the POS Doran TPMS. One of my trailer tire sensors was giving me grief by not reporting like it should 100% of the time. Well as Murphy's Law would have it that tire had lost air and by the time someone flagged me over it was in shreds. I had Coach-Net install the spare and off I went to a local tire shop called Kal-Tire is Calgary AB. I purchased two new tires for that side of the trailer and was planning to use the one good one that was still left on that side. Well, when they tried to remount it on my spare wheel it sounded like a popcorn machine in a movie theatre when it was being inflated. Needless to say it was removed and my old spare was remounted.

Once a dual axle tire or even a dually tire has been stressed from carrying TOO much weight because of an under-inflated or flat tire you may as well throw it out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jerichorick View Post

I have three tire gauges. Two read close to one another and the other is out by about 6#. When I set the tire pressure to 110psi the TST's read 108 for most and 107 for one. I am calling this my normal start psi but using the TST as a tire gauge is out of the question. Not accurate enough to meet the +/- .5 psi requirement of the tires.

Rick Y
You are a very wise man!

You would be surprised at the number of people who totally rely on the TPMS for everything.

Any TPMS is designed to warn owners of an under-inflated situation. The sensors are no where accurate enough to be setting CIP's (Cold Inflation Pressures).

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Old 04-28-2015, 12:14 PM   #103
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Thanks for your input! I'd like to know how you came up with that 20% number. I want to learn, and there must be something I'm missing.

20% is general industry position. Running on a tire at that may cause permanent structural damage depending of course on speed & load. You can read more HERE or HERE. I know some think I just make stuff up but that's not how I operate. I always try and base the information I post on my blog or on RV forums based on Tire Science.

snip
I don't recall the actual pressure I used, but being aware of the pressure difference of a hot tire, I'm positive that I measured the pressure of the mating dual and filled the tire to that pressure so that both duals were the same. Reasonable Plan

BTW, that's why I'm a strong proponent of a TPMS system where you manually program in a desired tire pressure, not one which automatically programs itself according to the tire's current pressure when the sensor is installed. With a system like that, when I took off the sensor to measure the other dual's tire pressure, it would've reprogrammed the TPMS to the hot tire's pressure.

No, it's not free, it asks for a bunch of personally identifying information before you can download it.
Some comments above in RED
You are correct the Rubber Manufacturers Association asks for some info. If you don't want to give it out that's OK. My comment on "free" was it didn't cost money.

A concern I have is IF a tire has lost air there is no way of knowing the level of damage without complete inspection by trained people who have appropriate safety equipment such as truck tire inflation cage. Not all tire stores are so equipped.

Sidewall blowout on a steel body truck tire can send the rim through cinder block wall so you can imagine what it would do to a human body.
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:22 PM   #104
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TPMS are primarily a system to WARN of pressure loss. None of the 12 sensors I have on my coach are in 100% agreement with my digital gauge that is certified to ISO laboratory reference standards. BUT O still trust the readings on my TPMS as I have learned the approximate numbers (range) so I am comfortable in using my TOMS as a morning check of pressure. However when actually setting tire pressure I always use my hand gauge and I set to the 1/2 psi so I will know the accuracy of my TPMS systems.
The pressure the TPM uses as the reference is the pressure I set each tire to. The pressure reading on the display may not reflect the actual pressure but the units are using a correct reference pressure.

Yes I am "anal" about inflation. What would you expect? BUT I also need to be able to provide accurate information based on actual data when I make posts on this and other RV forums.
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:54 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by PushedAround View Post
The only real way to inspect tire that has been run deflated is to remove it from the wheel and inspect the inside carcass. I have taken off a few car tires that were run low and some had a pile of tiny rubber balls, which I presume were "burned" off of the overheated sidewalls. No way I'd ever run those tires again.
Yes, went to another tire dealer today. Very professional and I was so impressed my next set of tires will come from them. They pulled the tire and did the full federal inspection. Tire was good to go and has been re-installed. Now I can sleep at night
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Old 04-28-2015, 01:13 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
20% is general industry position. Running on a tire at that may cause permanent structural damage depending of course on speed & load. You can read more HERE or HERE. I know some think I just make stuff up but that's not how I operate. I always try and base the information I post on my blog or on RV forums based on Tire Science.
I'm sorry, you must have misunderstood my question. I wasn't questioning the 20% threshold you quoted, as I've heard that number from many sources.

My question was about how you calculated that my particular tire lost more than 20% pressure in order to prompt this statement of yours:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Your tire lost more than 20% of its inflation so oficially had been run "flat"



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
I am comfortable in using my TOMS as a morning check of pressure. However when actually setting tire pressure I always use my hand gauge and I set to the 1/2 psi so I will know the accuracy of my TPMS systems.
That is the same way I use my system: as a morning spot check and to monitor while traveling, but I use an accurate hand gauge to set pressures when actually filling the tires.

I see the TPMS as a way to watch for changes, not as absolute truth.



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Originally Posted by jerichorick View Post
I discovered an interesting thing about my 507 system yesterday on my drive. The sensors indicated the ambient temperature and NOT the actual internal temperature of the tire.
When you stop and think about it, it would seem that's the way it has to be. Without a temperature sensor bulb extending down into the tire, about all it can do is measure the temperature at the end of the stem, and that temperature can't help but be influenced by the cooling effect of the vehicle moving at highway speeds, and by the relative air movement as the valve/sensor spins around while the wheel is turning. I don't see how the TPMS manufacturers can claim that they report the actual inside air temperature.
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:40 PM   #107
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I have three tire gauges. Two read close to one another and the other is out by about 6#. When I set the tire pressure to 110psi the TST's read 108 for most and 107 for one. I am calling this my normal start psi but using the TST as a tire gauge is out of the question. Not accurate enough to meet the +/- .5 psi requirement of the tires.
My TST sensors are off by nearly the exact same amount. I've assumed that this provides TST a legal defense that they couldn't contribute to inadvertent under inflation situation because its sensors always read on the low side. If I set my TST sensors to my desired pressure the actual pressure will always be slightly higher. This may not be correct, but if I were TST's attorney that's the advice I would give.
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Old 04-28-2015, 03:10 PM   #108
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I have never used the metal valve stems on a toad, 03 Honda, 10 Equinox, 11 Edge, 13 F150 , 14 Chevy Spark or 15 Kia Soul and have Been running tpms since Pressure Pro came out in 02 or 03 when the battery's started going out I went with the TST 510 sys and later switched to the 507 non flow through I did remove the outer shell of the 507 to make it easier to install and remove, as Moxy has said I am not suggesting that any one else do as I have it just a fact that I have never had a problem on any of the toads that we tow with the rubber valve stems. I was told by TST the weight is 0.6 oz with outer shell and 0.5 oz without the shell on the 507 sensors.
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Old 04-29-2015, 07:41 AM   #109
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I'm sorry, you must have misunderstood my question. I wasn't questioning the 20% threshold you quoted, as I've heard that number from many sources.

My question was about how you calculated that my particular tire lost more than 20% pressure in order to prompt this statement of yours:


I may have mis-read and assumed you went from 100 psi to 80

That is the same way I use my system: as a morning spot check and to monitor while traveling, but I use an accurate hand gauge to set pressures when actually filling the tires.

I see the TPMS as a way to watch for changes, not as absolute truth.

By Jove You Got It!

When you stop and think about it, it would seem that's the way it has to be. Without a temperature sensor bulb extending down into the tire, about all it can do is measure the temperature at the end of the stem, and that temperature can't help but be influenced by the cooling effect of the vehicle moving at highway speeds, and by the relative air movement as the valve/sensor spins around while the wheel is turning. I don't see how the TPMS manufacturers can claim that they report the actual inside air temperature.
Comments above in RED.
I did an Internal vs External temperature comparison of my two TPM Systems Sept 12 2013 and posted the results on my blog. Also a comparison of temperature using TPMS, IR gun and a race tire needle probe on May 19 2012. You might find these data informative.
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Old 04-30-2015, 07:02 AM   #110
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... and then there is this fix
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Old 04-30-2015, 08:30 AM   #111
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... and then there is this fix

Excellant
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Old 04-30-2015, 08:45 AM   #112
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personally, I would've doubled up on the tie wraps. But, Im anal like that.
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