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Old 05-25-2011, 05:41 AM   #15
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I know Florida law requires brakes on the towed unit if it excides 1500 # empty weight. With that said, I too don't understand whats the deal about not wanting to put brakes on a towd. To each his own but sooner than later if you tow without brakes you will find yourself taking about 2 feet LONGER to stop than the object in front of you, then the lawyers get involved and towed brakes get cheaper by the hour! As to the coach builders and weight rateings you can't subtract this one from that one and add to the other one(as one poster said some coaches have very little excess load capacity). If you exciede ANY of the weight ratings GVW, GCVW, or hitch ratings on your coach you will be on your own both on warrenty and legal issues.
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Old 05-25-2011, 12:12 PM   #16
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Well, a lot of statements have been made concerning braking ability of vehicles. Some related to MHs. Some talked about manufacturers data, state and federal requirements, just to name a few. I don't want to get into a big argument about this discussion and I don't "disagree" with anyone. It is just that I don't know. I do believe that posters believe what they say. I'm very skeptical about anything posted on these forums unless an authoritative reference is included. It has been my experience that people tend to believe what they are told if that person "appears" to know what they are talking. Two common "authoritative" sources are at RV rally seminars and "I was in that business for 30 Years", therefore I know what I am talking about. IMO, these are not reliable sources.

Jim E
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Old 05-26-2011, 12:20 AM   #17
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Well, everyone is saying about the same thing, I say "show me the money", that is provide me with something, from a MH manufacturer, that says/shows towing capacity is not GCWR minus GVWR? Or, some state/federal document that says 1500# is the towing limit without a supplemental breaking system.

I'm not suggesting everyone is wrong. I do know some people have a tendency to follow the advice from others without substantial proof. I'm not one of those folks.

Jim E
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:53 AM   #18
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Hi Pairajays

You may be correct about peoples opinion and what they believe. However this is an informal forum to help people with questions and answers to problems. I for one don't feel the need to post All of my ASE certifications, 35 years exp as a Fleet manager for a 500+vehicle fleet including class 1-8 vehicles, master hyd.tech cert, and GM warrenty center status, so on. With that said the bottom line is if you have a hitch rated for 500 lbs tongue weight/ 5000lbs compacity thats all you can haul. As to trailer brakes feel free do do your own research any DOT web site has that info on it, and common since must prevail.
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Old 05-26-2011, 06:03 AM   #19
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Pairajays, I do stand corrected in Florida the brake requirement is 3000lbs total weight (GVW Reg Weight). if you like type in Florida Trailer Brake Requirements for your Ref. on the web. So the answer as to towing vehicles, most but not all vehicles and trailers will require tow brakes to be legal.
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Old 05-26-2011, 09:56 AM   #20
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Hi Pairajays

You may be correct about peoples opinion and what they believe. However this is an informal forum to help people with questions and answers to problems. I for one don't feel the need to post All of my ASE certifications, 35 years exp as a Fleet manager for a 500+vehicle fleet including class 1-8 vehicles, master hyd.tech cert, and GM warrenty center status, so on. With that said the bottom line is if you have a hitch rated for 500 lbs tongue weight/ 5000lbs compacity thats all you can haul. As to trailer brakes feel free do do your own research any DOT web site has that info on it, and common since must prevail.
The debate is not how much you can haul, it's about how much you can haul without a supplemental braking system. I have always thought it was GCWR minus GVWR. Seems everyone disagrees but offers no authoritative reference.

I have no doubt you are very knowledgable in your particular field. But the discussion is about how much a MH can tow without a supplemental braking system. Based on what you said, I don't believe that is part of your expertise. I don't intend that to be a critictism.
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Old 05-26-2011, 09:59 AM   #21
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Hi Pairajays

You may be correct about peoples opinion and what they believe. However this is an informal forum to help people with questions and answers to problems. I for one don't feel the need to post All of my ASE certifications, 35 years exp as a Fleet manager for a 500+vehicle fleet including class 1-8 vehicles, master hyd.tech cert, and GM warrenty center status, so on. With that said the bottom line is if you have a hitch rated for 500 lbs tongue weight/ 5000lbs compacity thats all you can haul. As to trailer brakes feel free do do your own research any DOT web site has that info on it, and common since must prevail.
The debate is not how much you can haul, it's about how much you can haul without a supplemental braking system. I have always thought it was GCWR minus GVWR. Seems everyone disagrees but offers no authoritative reference.

I have no doubt you are very knowledgable in your particular field. But the discussion is about how much a MH can tow without a supplemental braking system. Based on what you said, I don't believe that is part of your expertise. I don't intend that to be a criticism.

Jim E
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Old 05-26-2011, 10:15 AM   #22
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You might check out www.towingworld.com they have a good account of all state towing laws and requirements. Or simply just hook it up go ahead, and let the lawyers and insurance company sort it out . I'm done.
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:26 AM   #23
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You might check out www.towingworld.com they have a good account of all state towing laws and requirements. Or simply just hook it up go ahead, and let the lawyers and insurance company sort it out . I'm done.
Did you make a mistake, that's a Blue OX web site?

Well, I guess we have beat the dead horse enough. No one has been able to substantiate their claim that towing capacity is something other than GCWR minus GVWR. I agree every state has something specifying towing requirements. However, the statutes are not clear about towing capacity of MHs that have a GCWR ratings. I did see a couple of sites that summarize state towing requirements. 3,000# seemed to be the predominate weight which, if exceeded, requires supplemental braking. Non of these sites addressed the GCWR question or endorsed by federal or state body.

I talked to someone, can't remember his name, at Monaco LLC and discussed this topic. He stated GCWR minus GVWR was the towing capacity of their MHs. It did not appear he consulted any Monaco document, just verified my question. So there you go, take it for what its worth.

I'm in no way suggesting you should not use s supplemental braking system. Actually I use one towing my Ford Explorer. Another factor, supplemental braking systems are a fairly new device. I don't remember when they come into vogue, in the 1990s if I remember correctly. Up until then, it was a non issue, now it is believed, by many, to be a state law. Go figure.

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Old 05-27-2011, 04:52 AM   #24
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Go to www.towingworld.com click on the tab whats new, you can print detailed laws of each state, some are by stopping distance others are by weight of whats being towed. Florida is by the GVW of the trailer, it doesn't say anything about weather you are towing it with a VW bug or a Class 8 Mack. As you said I think we have beat this to death. But I still can't understand why a friend of mine has a motorcycle lift 400 lbs, a fulldress HD 900lbs, and towing a 4000 lb Jeep and has been in the emergency lane a couple of times to avoid an accident, all of this on a gas M/H with no towed brake system, and still tell me he stops just fine. Law or not I dont enjoy the feeling my but biteing seat wondering if I can stop quickly if I need to, so it's brakes all around for me.
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Old 05-27-2011, 10:22 AM   #25
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Been there, done that, towingworld.com is a Blue OX web site and subject to bias. The reference they lead you to certainly looks informative but my question concerns The GCWR. To me that means the total safe stopping weight that the MH and towed is designed for. Having said that, I have been to web sites showing state statues, concerning towing, and they are not clear on this subject. That is MHs and GCWR.

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Old 05-27-2011, 04:24 PM   #26
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My MH has three stickers to the left of the driver's seat:

1. "Federal Certification Tag." It has all the axle GWs, coach GW, tire size and pressures, overall manufacturer and date, chassis manufacturer, VIN, and type vehicle (Multi person passenger).

2. Sticker by Spartan, the chassis manufacturer. It contains all the GW data noted above, the GCWR (with a definition), engine data including model, HP, RPM and S/N. Front and rear axle GWs, model#s and S/Ns. Date of manufacture and VIN.

3. "MH Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity." Notes # of occupants...seat belts, and max cargo capacity. VIN.
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Old 05-27-2011, 07:05 PM   #27
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My MH has three stickers to the left of the driver's seat:

1. "Federal Certification Tag." It has all the axle GWs, coach GW, tire size and pressures, overall manufacturer and date, chassis manufacturer, VIN, and type vehicle (Multi person passenger).

2. Sticker by Spartan, the chassis manufacturer. It contains all the GW data noted above, the GCWR (with a definition), engine data including model, HP, RPM and S/N. Front and rear axle GWs, model#s and S/Ns. Date of manufacture and VIN.

3. "MH Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity." Notes # of occupants...seat belts, and max cargo capacity. VIN.
All my stickers are missing. you said, "the GCWR (with a definition)", what is the definition of GCWR?

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Old 05-27-2011, 07:34 PM   #28
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You have broken the code and are exactly correct.
Cliff, I'm with Cat320. That is how I read it too. I had a similar situation with towing my 5K mini van but am only around 19 GVWR. I figured I would take 1K off my chassis and add it to my towing capacity. I figured if my old 97 F-53 could tow my van, my much better designed and built 2006 F-53 could too.
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