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Old 05-10-2019, 08:21 AM   #1
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Towing a enclosed trailer

I have been searching and maybe I am using the incorrect terms. My wife and I are in the market for a class A or class C. We do prefer the floor plans of the Class A's and I think better served but open to Class C if tow rating is better?. Our use will be hauling a 24-28' enclosed with a mustang to drag strips and using same trailer with a daily driver inside to go looking for antiques at various locations. I have seen several setups at various tracks, some using gassers and some using diesels.
This is my first step in the motorhome process. I have had several travel trailers, diesel trucks, Ford v10 trucks and I am not opposed to the v10, I actually like it. When towing a trailer like this, is there a specific length or WB of RV to stay with? I am sure there are a host of things I am not aware of when towing with a Class A. Any pointers?
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Old 05-10-2019, 08:52 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by bootstrap View Post
I have been searching and maybe I am using the incorrect terms. My wife and I are in the market for a class A or class C. We do prefer the floor plans of the Class A's and I think better served but open to Class C if tow rating is better?. Our use will be hauling a 24-28' enclosed with a mustang to drag strips and using same trailer with a daily driver inside to go looking for antiques at various locations. I have seen several setups at various tracks, some using gassers and some using diesels.
This is my first step in the motorhome process. I have had several travel trailers, diesel trucks, Ford v10 trucks and I am not opposed to the v10, I actually like it. When towing a trailer like this, is there a specific length or WB of RV to stay with? I am sure there are a host of things I am not aware of when towing with a Class A. Any pointers?
I'm GUESSING the trailer and load your plan to tow will weigh close to, or exceed, 5000 pounds. "MOST" gas powered MH, both type A and C have a towing limit of 5000 pounds or LESS. What a coach can tow is loosely defined as the diference between its GVWR and its GCVWR, but the loaded weight of the coach alone can affect how much the actual difference is. ONE exception is a class A coach on the Workhorse W-24 chassis, which has a 24,000 GVWR and a 30,000 GCVWR. Even with that chassis, I submit it will be challenged to safely tow a 28' trailer with a car inside. "Most" of the coaches built on the W-24 are 37-39 feet long (weighing 21,000+ )and while the GM 8.1L motor is strong and reliable, you will be using all of it and likely getting 5 to 6 MPG moving all that weight.

I suggest you may be better served by a rear diesel pusher Class A or perhaps a "super C". Both of those types are rated to tow at least 10,000 pounds, and will likely provide a better experience overall, including better MPG and durability.
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:25 AM   #3
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I just did similar research and ended up purchasing a DP Class A. I started looking at Super C RVs but found the Kodiak frame versions could not tow what I needed. I have a 20' V nose enclosed trailer which weights 7,700 lbs with my race car in it and all my gear. Most Kodiak Super Cs have a GVWR of 19,500 or 22,000 but all of them had a GCWR of 26,000. most of the ones I looked at wieghted very close to the 19,500 when loaded with gear, fuel water etc. They would be over the 26,000 with my trailer.

when looking make sure to see if the previous owner ever had the rig on scale to get the actual weight of the unit in use. I was surprised how many are very near and over their GVWR.

That is how I picked the RV i did purchase. Plenty of room left under the GVWR - it weights 26,500 with full tanks and gear with a 29,500 GVWR and a GCWR of 39,500 so I am well under the limits. Plus 860 ft lbs of torque to get it moving.
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:35 AM   #4
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Even towing an open trailer with a car on it could bump up against the weight limits of a gas chassis. Hitch vertical weight can also be a problem. Between the total length of the frame behind the rear axle (think of it as a level and the axle as a fulcrum) and house builder welded extensions on the frame the numbers might not be there to support what you want to do.

And not all diesel Class A can do it either. You start running into transmission limitations with the lighter Allison models.

Further reading - https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources...e_r2_Dec21.pdf

Good luck with your search.
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:46 AM   #5
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I have a 2001 Monaco DP with the 500hp Cummings. I towed a 20' enclosed full of my dads tools, 3 roll away track boxes loaded, furniture, car parts, motor cycle and parts...from Reno to Virginia. Most of the time I didn't even know the trailer was back there, but, it was a great down hill racer! I kept the engine brake set on low and never had an issue except finding a place to park!
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:58 AM   #6
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There's something else to watch for as you search for a diesel pusher and that's the tow rating of the RV's draw bar. In my Journey DL it's rated at 10,000 lbs, but the other 4 similar models in that line came with a 5,000 lb draw bar. You can usually find that the engines are larger with a higher rated draw bar too. My engine is a 330 HP Cat. The other similar models came with Cummins with either 275 HP or 300 HP.

Of course you can weld in your own 10,000 draw bar on any RV you get.

Best way to judge IMO would be to get the brand and model and/or the VIN of any RV you're looking at and do a google search for the 'brochure' for that brand. The brochure will usually give you the ratings for the draw bar and the various weight capacities so you can calculate tow weight.
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:02 AM   #7
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My problem is length laws. Rig is 45', GVWR is 54,000#'s and fully loaded I'm at just less than 52,000. My GCVWR is 69,000#'s and I'm only towing a CR-V 4 down. Would like to buy a RZR for dune use but I'd be overlength almost everywhere. Power to pull isn't a problem for me either.
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:47 AM   #8
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bootstrap-

1) Do you have the trailer now? Can you state or estimate its loaded weight?

2) I've noticed that folks on iRV2 who race (on the track) sometimes consider ratings as "guidelines" rather than "limits." Do you fall into that camp?

3) Just you and the Mrs.? No crew/kids/grandkids/large pets?

4) Just for weekend use, or do you plan on longer trips, seasonal travel (e.g., snowbirding), or full-timing?
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Old 05-10-2019, 04:43 PM   #9
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bootstrap-

1) Do you have the trailer now? Can you state or estimate its loaded weight?

Estimated total weight is 10k at my heaviest load. Trailer is 4200+/- plus truck to chase antiques

2) I've noticed that folks on iRV2 who race (on the track) sometimes consider ratings as "guidelines" rather than "limits." Do you fall into that camp?

I prefer limits in my older age, when younger they were mere suggestions

3) Just you and the Mrs.? No crew/kids/grandkids/large pets?

Mrs. -weight...??m -2- dogs @ 150lbs and occasional grandson(toddler) plus occasional adult

4) Just for weekend use, or do you plan on longer trips, seasonal travel (e.g., snowbirding), or full-timing?

Weekends- I would estimate within 200 miles radius on average
That did not really come out right but it works I guess
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Old 05-10-2019, 04:48 PM   #10
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Hitch vertical weight can also be a problem. Between the total length of the frame behind the rear axle (think of it as a level and the axle as a fulcrum) and house builder welded extensions on the frame the numbers might not be there to support what you want to do.



Good luck with your search.
This was my biggest concern, the length. There is no real way to beef it up when its a long over hang behind the axle.
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Old 05-10-2019, 05:00 PM   #11
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bootstrap-

Based on your answers, you'll want to look at diesel Class A coaches with a horizontal tow capacity of 10,000 pounds or more. To meet the tongue weight limits, you may want to look at tag axle-equipped coaches first. A Super C would also be in the running, although you don't need the cabover bunk.

You can overcome a tongue weight limit by using a Trailer Toad, but that does nothing to increase horizontal towing capacity.

When looking at candidate coaches, look for ones that have an Allison 3000- or 4000-series transmission.

Coaches made between 2000 and 2006 will be both more common and more affordable. They offered some shorter tag-axle coaches back then.
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Old 05-10-2019, 05:30 PM   #12
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bootstrap-

Based on your answers, you'll want to look at diesel Class A coaches with a horizontal tow capacity of 10,000 pounds or more. To meet the tongue weight limits, you may want to look at tag axle-equipped coaches first. A Super C would also be in the running, although you don't need the cabover bunk.

You can overcome a tongue weight limit by using a Trailer Toad, but that does nothing to increase horizontal towing capacity.

When looking at candidate coaches, look for ones that have an Allison 3000- or 4000-series transmission.

Coaches made between 2000 and 2006 will be both more common and more affordable. They offered some shorter tag-axle coaches back then.
I have never seen or heard of a trailer toad, this appears to solve most of my issues. It almost appears to be like the dollies we used when I pulled doubles and triples back in my CDL days. Can you back these up with the trailer hooked up? I gotta you tube this. Its funny you mention one with a tag axle, there is an RV I pass going to a local track for sale with a tag. I plan to check on it when I take the car back for some bracket racing. I do appreciate everyone's advice
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Old 05-11-2019, 07:50 AM   #13
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bootstrap-

Based on your answers, you'll want to look at diesel Class A coaches with a horizontal tow capacity of 10,000 pounds or more. To meet the tongue weight limits, you may want to look at tag axle-equipped coaches first. A Super C would also be in the running, although you don't need the cabover bunk.

You can overcome a tongue weight limit by using a Trailer Toad, but that does nothing to increase horizontal towing capacity.

When looking at candidate coaches, look for ones that have an Allison 3000- or 4000-series transmission.

Coaches made between 2000 and 2006 will be both more common and more affordable. They offered some shorter tag-axle coaches back then.

I have been looking on PPL Motorhomes page and the DP with the 400 Cummins seems like the answer but I have not seen a tow rating listed yet. I live in the Corpus Christi area and even though we are a "snowbird" destination, the RV dealers here do not seem to stock the DP's. I think my budget will stay around 100k and it appears like a nice DP will be in reach. Any suggestions on a particular brand?. I know I would prefer the big Cummins over the small Cat and 6.7 Cummins
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Old 05-11-2019, 08:04 AM   #14
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There are nicer units out there than trailer toad. Safety hitch it the nice'st unit I found . the problem is length, and adding a toad just adds more length. the average legal length across the country is 65'. With that being said I am 42' with a 24' enclosed trailer that is 8' tall with a 4' tongue.
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