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Old 01-03-2013, 07:49 PM   #57
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No "folly" involved... Well, maybe some after dark.
Read the posts. Real simple: the hitch was reinforced beyond a standard 10k hitch.
Read the posts... The chassis can tow 10k+ easily according to Freightliner & Winnebago.
Read the posts... The wheels sheared off the TRAILER, not the coach. The trailer was loaded to about 9k at the time. The TRAILER axles (2) are rated at 7k each.

Apparently this concept is quite difficult to comprehend. Come to any race track in the country and you'll find folks not afraid to use their coach's to the fullest capacity.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:04 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Cat320 View Post
10k might not be your "true" towing capacity. The true towing capacity of any MH is the GCWR minus the weight of the MH when ready to tow or the hitch capacity, whichever is smaller. If I was in your shoes, I'd do the numbers above then find out the actual weight of what you want to tow...you might be too heavy.

Actually it is the LESSER of that number or the tow gear rating.. And he is 2x the tow gear rating and then some already so in any case he's going to have to up that.

He also spoke of hitch extensions.. When you add a hitch extension a 5,000 pound hitch becomes a 4,000 or 3,000 or 2,000 or even a 500 pound hitch real, real fast. (precise ratind depends on size of extension) So new hitch sytem is clearly indicated.


Now assuming after mod you still have 10,000 towing capacity, and a 11,000 trailer.

I can not tell you it is safe, I mean if I do that and heaven forbid something bad happens I'm in trouble as well as you.

But I can tell you I BELIEVE, you have a bit of "Wiggle room".

Problem is this: IF something happens. Some smart lawyer finds you are towing above your rating, He's going to have a ton of fun at your expense.

I have seen the kind of things they say when they sue you.. The difference is .. In your case. it might well be true.. Plus your insurance may give you fits too.. (in my case.. well let' just say the legal prick was highly castrated by the facts).
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:21 PM   #59
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Did you ever actually weigh the trailer? I'm glad it worked out, and I have no issues with what you did. Just curious what it actually weighed. Published weights of trailers always seem to be way low. When I looked at short stackers, they were more like 9000 empty. A 24' regular enclosed trailer is closer to 5000 pounds as soon as it has some cabinets and stuff. I went aluminum, no cabinets, and it's 3800 pounds empty.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:36 PM   #60
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Did you ever actually weigh the trailer? I'm glad it worked out, and I have no issues with what you did. Just curious what it actually weighed.


The empty trailer weighs about 5200#. No interior cabinets or built in generator / compressor, etc. Has a lighter steel pivot lift, versus a four post lift. Somewhat lighter than several 24' stackers I know of with tons of cabinets, four post lift, etc.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:04 AM   #61
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hitch and stuff...

Here is my setup... and it's worked beautifully!

The Air Safe hitch (it is set up for WD bars)



The hitch. If you look the slightly rusty "C" channel is the hitch. it extends about 5-6' up the frame to attach near the oilpan of the engine. if you look really close you will see the reciever also extends forward about 3-4' and has the crossmember between the two "C" channels.



Here if you look - you will see the tongue extension. look at the red handle in the upper left and that is my hitch pin. you see how the reciever/tongue is really long and puts the twisting force of the WDH up on the frame a bit.



Here is a side view of the assembly - I added the little roller wheels to keep the frame from dragging out of my old driveway. no longer a problem with a flat driveway!



And for fun I will also show a fail I've had... with an Aluma trailer tongue snapping off - so I know all about making sure things are safe!






And finally my current rig...

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Old 01-04-2013, 06:08 AM   #62
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Your 330Hp Coach will pull that just fine.
I tow a 10,000 lb race trailer all over the country with my old Eagle.
On the Flats I don't even know it's back there and pulls hills with ease. My hitch is rated @10,000 lbs and I do use a distribution system and anti sway bar. My Trailer Tires have been up graded to 16 in F rated 14 plys and I change them every 2 years.
Only advise I will offer is Brakes ! Good brakes on the trailer is very important.

Have Fun
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:32 AM   #63
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Yep, it's wrong for WA, and OR.
Wrong for MI too, It says: Towed Cars: No laws regarding.

One of the most common errors in this kind of list is that "No laws regarding" comment.

In Michigan the reason there are not laws specific to a car in tow is that you never tow a car.. You only tow trailers..

A trailer is any vehicle WITH OR WITHOUT MOTIVE POWER designed to be towed so the weight of the vehicle does not rest on the towing vehicle.

IE: A car, towed 4-down **IS** a trailer under Mi law and thus whatever they say about trailers applies to Cars in tow.

There is an exception for a car being towed by a tow truck by the way.

And a car being rope towed (With a driver in the towed car) is ... It's own vehicle, not considered as being towed.. Though the rope may need a flag.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:41 AM   #64
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Just saw this and noticed that the OP was selling his coach and getting a toterhome but thought I would throw my experience into the mix as well.

We started with a 30' gas motorhome towing a 24' enclosed Wells Cargo trailer. I had installed cabinets, workbench, toolbox, interior lighting so the trailer emptry weight was 4700 pounds. Loaded with sandrail and quads heading to the races or a weekend of playing it was right at 8k pounds. I built the hitch myself as the OEM hitch was a joke at best. I incorporated the hitch into the frame and extended it about 4' forward towards the rear axle of the coach. I also used a weight distributing hitch and towed this setup around most of the western U.S. for six years and about 45k miles.

We then traded up to our first DP which was a 1991 Beaver Contessa 38' and it only had a 5k pound rated hitch but was leaps and bounds better than the one on the Travelcraft. I removed the hitch and sold it and built one almost identical other than wall thickness of the tubing and extended the center receiver further forward to tie into the outside frame rails via supporting crossmembers. This hitch was tied into the frame about 3.5' forward. I bolted it to the frame using ten (10) 3/4" grade 8 bolts per side and then welded three small sections (about 1' long each) on either side to add a little extra. I know the entire setup was way overkill but that is how I usually build my stuff anyway. I also wanted to keep it to where if I ever had to remove the hitch to do any engine work such as drop the pan for repairs I could merely unbolt the hitch and take a die grinder and cut the three stitch welds per side for removal.

Luckily I never had to remove it for engine repairs so once it was installed it was there for good and is still on the coach being used. We used this setup over the western U.S. for 7 years and about 65k miles.

On our current coach, 03 Monaco Dynasty, on the Roadmaster S-Series chassis the hitch is almost identical to the one I fabricated on our previous Beaver. The hitch is very stout and incorporated into the rear of the chassis about 3' forward from the rear of the coach. I contacted Monaco in 2007 when we purchased the coach about what the difference is between the 10k pound hitch and some of the newer ones that were coming from Monaco stating a 15k pound towing capacity. I was told that the hitches were the same it is merely on the newer Monacos with the tag axle S-Series coaches they have upgraded the hitch rating to 15k pounds. A friend of ours has a 2006 Newell and it is rated to tow 18k pounds. Their hitch is the same size as ours physically and ties in the same distance front to rear with the exception that they use the 2.5" receiver tubing vs. the 2".

We upgraded trailers in 2008 to a 26' Haulmark Edge race trailer with extra height added, two 7k pound axles and 16" 14-ply tires giving me a 15k pound tire capacity plus many other extras for our sand duning adventures. I have also mounted a toolbox and air compressor in the trailer for wrenching when at the races/dunes. Empty the trailer weighs 5500 pounds. It tows so nice that we now on quite a few occassions haul our 2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited plus our Harley Davidson WG and our son's Buell when we travel. With the sand toys, tools, extra fuel it weighs right @ 10k pounds and with the Jeep, Harley, Buell and tools it is just over 12k pounds. I do use WD bars when towing the trailer. Currently we have put racked up around 35k miles with this setup.

Mike.

Parked at the Little Sahara recreation area, Utah.


St. Anthony Sand Dunes, Idaho.


Loading the Jeep and heading to Moab.


Jeep and motorcycles at Ouray, Colorado.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:45 AM   #65
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wa8yxm,

Ditto in Texas. A "trailer" is defined in the Texas Transportation Code, Section 541.201 as:

Quote:
(20) "Trailer" means a vehicle, other than a pole trailer, with or without motive power:
(A) designed to be drawn by a motor vehicle and to transport persons or property; and
(B) constructed so that no part of the vehicle's weight and load rests on the motor vehicle.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:46 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by TDInewguy View Post
Here is my setup... and it's worked beautifully!

The Air Safe hitch (it is set up for WD bars)
And for fun I will also show a fail I've had... with an Aluma trailer tongue snapping off - so I know all about making sure things are safe!






And finally my current rig...
Just for the hell of it take a look at how cheesy of a hitch your Duramax has on it, if it is still the OEM hitch. I was so disappointed in GM to put such a piece of crap hitch on their 3/4 and 1-ton trucks that was one of the first things I changed on mine. I have seen on the Duramax, Cummins and Powerstroke forums that many people are having issues with their OEM hitches when towing travel trailers and enclosed trailers which are now where near the weight we are talking about with our coaches.

I installed a 15k pound Curt hitch on my 2006 Duramax before my OEM one failed because I do on occassion tow my enclosed trailer if we are only heading to the dunes for the day. On that note I cannot beleive the difference between the Monaco hitch that is rated at 10k pounds and the Curt hitch that is rated at 15k pounds. The Curt hitch is a well manufactured product but it is about a third the size of the one under my Dynasty. Kind of makes you wonder how they come up with the weight capacity ratings doesn't it?

Mike.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:10 AM   #67
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Just for the hell of it take a look at how cheesy of a hitch your Duramax has on it, if it is still the OEM hitch. I was so disappointed in GM to put such a piece of crap hitch on their 3/4 and 1-ton trucks that was one of the first things I changed on mine. I have seen on the Duramax, Cummins and Powerstroke forums that many people are having issues with their OEM hitches when towing travel trailers and enclosed trailers which are now where near the weight we are talking about with our coaches.

I installed a 15k pound Curt hitch on my 2006 Duramax before my OEM one failed because I do on occassion tow my enclosed trailer if we are only heading to the dunes for the day. On that note I cannot beleive the difference between the Monaco hitch that is rated at 10k pounds and the Curt hitch that is rated at 15k pounds. The Curt hitch is a well manufactured product but it is about a third the size of the one under my Dynasty. Kind of makes you wonder how they come up with the weight capacity ratings doesn't it?

Mike.
That OEM Duramax hitch is LONG GONE! After the first failure -- which is this trailer you see, I went banana's on the manufacturer of the trailer and also looked into the overall safety of the rest of the rig.

The Duramax got Hellwig anti-roll bars, air bags, a full setup for the front suspension (tie rod sleeves, and a system to captivate the pitman and idler arm, so they don't wear out and make the steering mushy....) and also had a custom hitch made that is welded to the frame.

No more sub-standard quality stuff when it comes to safety!
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:33 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by TDInewguy View Post
That OEM Duramax hitch is LONG GONE! After the first failure -- which is this trailer you see, I went banana's on the manufacturer of the trailer and also looked into the overall safety of the rest of the rig.

The Duramax got Hellwig anti-roll bars, air bags, a full setup for the front suspension (tie rod sleeves, and a system to captivate the pitman and idler arm, so they don't wear out and make the steering mushy....) and also had a custom hitch made that is welded to the frame.

No more sub-standard quality stuff when it comes to safety!
Looks like we think along the same lines. Like I said, when I purchased my 06 Duramax I was very disappointed in the OEM hitch plus I had already replaced one or two for other people by the time I bought mine. I went a little overkill with the Curt 15k pound hitch, I could have gotten away with the 10k but I wanted the best one I could get under it.

I also didn't like the weak tie rods and I have replaced so many of the pitman/idler arms on GM trucks for people that was another area I addressed. I am a firm believer in taking care of known issues and addressing them while in the shop so when on the road you can drive worry free.

I lifted my Duramax 6" and I am running 36" tires mounted on 20" MotoMetal wheels. I added the hitch, Banks exhaust, Fabtech HD tie rods, Cognito steering upgrade to capture the pitman/idler arm assemblies plus some cosmetic upgrades and the thing drives and tows the trailer like a dream.

If we are just heading to the dunes for the day and not taking the coach I have 100% in the setup and we can travel safely. That is what makes all the hours of wrenching worth it.

Mike.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:22 PM   #69
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Looks like we think along the same lines. Like I said, when I purchased my 06 Duramax I was very disappointed in the OEM hitch plus I had already replaced one or two for other people by the time I bought mine. I went a little overkill with the Curt 15k pound hitch, I could have gotten away with the 10k but I wanted the best one I could get under it.

I also didn't like the weak tie rods and I have replaced so many of the pitman/idler arms on GM trucks for people that was another area I addressed. I am a firm believer in taking care of known issues and addressing them while in the shop so when on the road you can drive worry free.

I lifted my Duramax 6" and I am running 36" tires mounted on 20" MotoMetal wheels. I added the hitch, Banks exhaust, Fabtech HD tie rods, Cognito steering upgrade to capture the pitman/idler arm assemblies plus some cosmetic upgrades and the thing drives and tows the trailer like a dream.

If we are just heading to the dunes for the day and not taking the coach I have 100% in the setup and we can travel safely. That is what makes all the hours of wrenching worth it.

Mike.
That is what it was called - the Cognito kit... that is what I did along with the stainless tie rod sleeves.

I just rebuilt my transfer case, before pump rub killed it. the output to the rear axle was slinging a ton of lube, so it was runnin low. Plus it's got EFIlive tune on it.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:35 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by TDInewguy View Post
That is what it was called - the Cognito kit... that is what I did along with the stainless tie rod sleeves.

I just rebuilt my transfer case, before pump rub killed it. the output to the rear axle was slinging a ton of lube, so it was runnin low. Plus it's got EFIlive tune on it.
I did the upgraded pump kit from Merchant Automotive when my truck had about 60k miles on it. That is a great upgrade, I have had to replace about three rear transfer case halves for people that didn't catch them in time. I have found that under normal use around 100k-120k is when they start having issues if the pump upgrade is not performed.

Mine just turned over 80k about two weeks ago, I don't drive it much. Today I just added a little more fuel capacity by adding the Titan 52 gallon tank. I don't know what GM was thinking by only putting a 26 gallon tank under them.

Mike.
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