Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Class A Motorhome Discussions
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-22-2012, 05:25 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Sky_Boss's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ON THE ROAD...SOMEWHERE
Posts: 6,069
Transition from Gas to DP? What To Look For.

I'm no expert by any means but I know a LOT more than I did 4 months ago. Sandee and I have spent several hours discussing pros and cons of upgrading to the DP sooner than later. I think we have a reasonable idea of what we think a DP can do "better":

1. Lower center of gravity & heavier so as to not be pushed around as easy.
2. Genset is in the front and not under out bed.
3. Ride quality.
4. Reduced noise up front.
5. More torque at lower RPM.
6. Generally has a shorter overhang and more of cut angle.
7. Fuel milage more consistent over different conditions.
8. Fuel milage a bit higher than gas. (Maybe not enough to offset fuel price difference but given how my gas MPG drops like a rock in winds and hills, might make it close to a wash.)

While a tag axle might further improve Ride quality issues, we do not think that going to a rig over 40' to get a tag axle is our next step. I also think that the jump from gas to DP will probably net more of an appreciable "improvement" in the first place. The jump in improvement from DP without to a tag to a DP with a tag might be more incremental in comparison. The jury is still out on that one but for now, we are concentrating on 38'-40'.

So, I certainly am open to any other thoughts on the general differences in making that transition and will enjoy reading them. However, I am more interested in the technical/mechanical differences relating to maintenance and cost of operation.

As an example, I have heard that a DP oil change is done 1/2 as often but cost twice as much as a gas oil change. That sounds like a wash to me. What were some of the new things operational and maintenance wise that folks had to learn moving from gas to DP?

Thanks in advance!
__________________

__________________
Don, Sandee & GSD Zeus. Guardian GSDs Gunny (7/11/15) & Thor (5/5/15)
2006 DSDP 4320, Spartan MM IFS, 2013 CR-V, Blue Ox Avail, SMI AF1, Samsung 197R Refer.
Sky_Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-22-2012, 05:32 PM   #2
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10
We just upgraded to a do from a gasser and wow. Like going from a vw bug to a caddy! So quite, drives like a dream, and don't wear u out like our gasser did. Better mileage, and the ability to set the cruise and just kick back and go. As far as im concerned all positives!
Enjoy
__________________

__________________
Bigiron32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 05:34 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Solo Rvers Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 28,494
Checking the SCA's in the coolant unless you have the correct long life" coolant.
Oil changes are once per your OR a mileage figure (varies by engine make/model), whichever comes first.
Air brake/air system maintenance.
Transmission fluid/filter replacement. TranSynd is about $32 a gallon and you will need gallons, not quarts. Filters are about $70 for a pair for the 3000 & 4000 models.
Better ride
Quieter
More weight
Maybe more weight capacity (our 2002 DSDP only had a CCC of 663#'s at delivery). Now have over 3,000#'s more.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA, SKP
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 CR-V
Mr_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 05:40 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
stearn's Avatar


 
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lambertville Mi
Posts: 747
Interesting thoughts and questions!
__________________
06 Adventurer 38R

Equinox Toad
stearn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 05:55 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Jack1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 967
Are you full-timing or are you a weekend warrior?

Does your current rig meet all your needs....if not...why will a DP be better. Do you need more CC capacity, more grunt for the hills you drive, better handling, etc?

I'm sure you already know.........changing rigs is expensive! Be sure you wring every penny of value out of your current rig before you jump to new one. By the time you are ready you won't need anyone else's opinion & advice....you'll know why you need a DP and what things to look for that make sense to you.....not that seeking opinions is necessarily a bad idea.

At the end of the day, DP's are superior to Gas rigs in almost every aspect except cost.....and you don't need a bazooka to hunt chipmunks. Are you sure you don't have diesel envy?

Have fun.....good luck......
__________________
Jack & Maggie
04-Rexhall Roseair (37)
Cummins ISC / Spartan
Jack1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 06:16 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
docj's Avatar
Official iRV2 Sponsor
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 3,716
With respect to the relative maintenance costs, ignore much of what you read here and pay attention to the manufacturer's maintenance schedule.

People with little actual experience will attempt to scare you with comments such as the cost of transmission fluid. In reality, the filters only need to be replaced every 3-4 years and, if you do fluids testing, you may not have to replace the fluid for many years. Even when you do need a filter a fluid change it is in the range of $500-600 which isn't all that much for something you do at most every 3-4 years.

Oil changes are ~$250-300 affairs but they are once a year events. Fuel filters are <$100 and are also once a year.

Just make sure you do the maintenance on the recommended schedule; most RVers will need to use the "time" rather than the "mileage" schedule. Some RVer's try to skimp on costs by assuming that they don't need to do maintenance because their annual mileage is so small. This can turn out to be a very costly assumption. Diesel engines can last for hundreds of thousands of miles if they are properly maintained!

One last suggestion, when you do need engine/transmission maintenance try to resist the temptation to take a DP to an RV dealer. IMHO your costs will be less and the quality of the work better if you take it to a truck service center. Authorized service centers for Cummins, CAT, and Allison are located throughout the country and you can find them online easily. Remember, a DP is a heavy truck; any reputable repair facility that works on these can work on yours.
__________________
Joel Weiss--WiFiRanger RV Ambassador
RVParkReviews administrator
2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton CAT C-12
docj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 06:18 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Sky_Boss's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ON THE ROAD...SOMEWHERE
Posts: 6,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack1234 View Post
Are you full-timing or are you a weekend warrior?

Does your current rig meet all your needs....if not...why will a DP be better. Do you need more CC capacity, more grunt for the hills you drive, better handling, etc?

I'm sure you already know.........changing rigs is expensive! Be sure you wring every penny of value out of your current rig before you jump to new one. By the time you are ready you won't need anyone else's opinion & advice....you'll know why you need a DP and what things to look for that make sense to you.....not that seeking opinions is necessarily a bad idea.

At the end of the day, DP's are superior to Gas rigs in almost every aspect except cost.....and you don't need a bazooka to hunt chipmunks. Are you sure you don't have diesel envy?

Have fun.....good luck......
Excellent questions!

1. We will be going FT in about 2 years. Out thoughts are that it is still a buyer's market so this might be a very good time to make the move.

2. Our rig is very capable but we have found that with full fuel, LP and water we are only 300# below gross rear wheel axle weight. Certainly we can run with less than full water. We also are disappointed in the basement AC performance and would consider it necessary to add a roof AC which could take up 50-75# of that. Keep in mind that so far we have not loaded the rig for FT use so I would certainly believe that we could be in danger of maxing out the rear axle weight in real FT application.

3. I've fought through the pure diesel envy thing and that is a very fair concern. I'm trying to check my ego at the door and between Sandee and I we think we have gotten past that. There is no one that can say that our current rig is substandard in general. We truly appreciate its capabilities. What we THINK we will gain with a DP is bigger margins on CCC and performance. Yet, that being said, we really want solid air conditioning and a generator that doesn't rumble under our bed. LOL The other list of things I mentioned earlier are also important.

All this being said...we have not make a definitive choice to make this move. We have a great rig and we do have time to evaluate price, features and capabilities. What we are trying to head off is investment in this rig (such as an added AC unit and a few other odds and ends) that can be better put towards a DP with more CCC and performance.

We have time.
__________________
Don, Sandee & GSD Zeus. Guardian GSDs Gunny (7/11/15) & Thor (5/5/15)
2006 DSDP 4320, Spartan MM IFS, 2013 CR-V, Blue Ox Avail, SMI AF1, Samsung 197R Refer.
Sky_Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 06:27 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Tha_Rooster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4,517
I'm on my third MH, my wife and I pick out our first together because of price our second because of the floor plan she wanted. And my last and present RV it was chassis first them floor plan she liked.
__________________
2007 Fleetwood Revolution LE 40V
Tha_Rooster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 06:28 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Sky_Boss's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ON THE ROAD...SOMEWHERE
Posts: 6,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
...
Maybe more weight capacity (our 2002 DSDP only had a CCC of 663#'s at delivery). Now have over 3,000#'s more.
D...

Am I reading that correctly that your current rig started with 663# CCC and you increased it to 3000# CCC? Did you put helium in your tires? LOL
__________________
Don, Sandee & GSD Zeus. Guardian GSDs Gunny (7/11/15) & Thor (5/5/15)
2006 DSDP 4320, Spartan MM IFS, 2013 CR-V, Blue Ox Avail, SMI AF1, Samsung 197R Refer.
Sky_Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 06:33 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Sky_Boss's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ON THE ROAD...SOMEWHERE
Posts: 6,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha_Rooster View Post
I'm on my third MH, my wife and I pick out our first together because of price our second because of the floor plan she wanted. And my last and present RV it was chassis first them floor plan she liked.
I can feel you on that. LOL One of the things we look for in our floor plan is that the toilet is separate from the shower & Bath room sink. I need my privacy.
__________________
Don, Sandee & GSD Zeus. Guardian GSDs Gunny (7/11/15) & Thor (5/5/15)
2006 DSDP 4320, Spartan MM IFS, 2013 CR-V, Blue Ox Avail, SMI AF1, Samsung 197R Refer.
Sky_Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 06:39 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Sky_Boss's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ON THE ROAD...SOMEWHERE
Posts: 6,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by docj View Post
...
Oil changes are ~$250-300 affairs but they are once a year events. Fuel filters are <$100 and are also once a year.

Just make sure you do the maintenance on the recommended schedule; most RVers will need to use the "time" rather than the "mileage" schedule. Some RVer's try to skimp on costs by assuming that they don't need to do maintenance because their annual mileage is so small. This can turn out to be a very costly assumption. Diesel engines can last for hundreds of thousands of miles if they are properly maintained! ...
I think you make a lot of sense on the miles vs time factors for maintenance. Like tires, I suspect that even in an aggressive FT, high miles situation, we would still be more bound by time than miles. That makes things more simple to me.
__________________
Don, Sandee & GSD Zeus. Guardian GSDs Gunny (7/11/15) & Thor (5/5/15)
2006 DSDP 4320, Spartan MM IFS, 2013 CR-V, Blue Ox Avail, SMI AF1, Samsung 197R Refer.
Sky_Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 07:32 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Jack1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 967
Hey Thud....many many people happily full-time in wonderful Gas MH's...however I don't think you're one of them!. My opinion, for what it is worth:

1) Stop spending money trying to make your current unit more than it is...use it learn the ropes and really drill down on what you need and want for your full-time rig. You won't get any of your upgrade investments back when you sell/trade down the road.

2) Relax on the buyers market thing....what about today's World looks like we are about to see some miracle economic recovery. Spend your time researching "where" to find those killer deals on the DP of your dreams.....trust me....there is no rush.

3) You also don't need to spend a fortune to get a great DP. The big techno improvements occurred 10yrs or more ago. 5yr old DP's all have bigger drive trains (ISL's), great chassis (you DO NOT need a tag - unnecessary extra complication & ongoing maintenance), multiple slides, sine wave inverters, LCD TV's, etc,etc,....wait two years and you'll be looking at Coaches just pre-DEF & someone else will have spent hours & hours visiting the Dealer to get all those "little" things fixed. Review service records with a passion....if a Coach has a history of problems it's a turkey....if it has a history of few problems & has been meticulously maintained...get out your wallet. Regardless, don't spend more than play money.

4) As a full-timer I would also caution you about "techno envy" .....keep your systems as simple as possible. Everything breaks eventually...why add to your problems. You couldn't give a power awning, power cord reels, electric toilet, a macerator, power door locks,....now power slides, jacks, mirrors, satellite dish that's another story.
__________________
Jack & Maggie
04-Rexhall Roseair (37)
Cummins ISC / Spartan
Jack1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 08:01 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
edgray's Avatar


 
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Entegra Owners Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Madison, MS
Posts: 7,553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack1234 View Post
Hey Thud....many many people happily full-time in wonderful Gas MH's...however I don't think you're one of them!. My opinion, for what it is worth....... Relax on the buyers market thing....what about today's World looks like we are about to see some miracle economic recovery. Spend your time researching "where" to find those killer deals on the DP of your dreams.....trust me....there is no rush.......
I agree, and also please consider that the 2-3 year old coach you may buy today will be a 5 year old coach when you're finally ready to go FT. I like the suggestion to use your present coach during your current Part Time lifestyle, and then upgrade to a newer used coach in which you can live for many more years.

Some of the beautiful NEW coachs of today will be relative bargins two years from now. If the economy improves, there will be more late model coachs available, not less, because many will trade up due to renewed confidence. Ed
__________________
2016 EC Aspire 42RBQ / 2014 CR-V
edgray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 08:11 PM   #14
Member
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 40
Go for it! Pick a floor plan, because she will be happy and if momma's happy...blah, blah. Get a used unit that already has digital tv's and you will get the most bang for your buck. OR go for new and squeeze the sales guy, it still is a buyers market. Good luck, I am on my 4th DP, we spend 6-7 months on the road. The last two were new units.
__________________

__________________
wah864 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gas



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.