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Old 07-30-2014, 11:32 AM   #29
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Iím also thinking this is a closed loop water system and I need to connect that cold water supply in the bay to the main water line. I would need to install a valve in the main water line so the water could be diverted when Iím filling it and/or if I ever wanted to connect to a city water supply?
Thoughts anyoneÖ.
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Old 07-30-2014, 12:13 PM   #30
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Here's a diagram I found of a typical water system that uses the city water fill also as the tank fill.

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Old 07-30-2014, 12:48 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by BFlinn181 View Post
Here's a diagram I found of a typical water system that uses the city water fill also as the tank fill.

Thanks that is what I thought it would look like. It look to me like it is a closed loop. I wrote to Couchmen to see if they could help. I'll keep you all posted
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:17 PM   #32
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I just thought of something seeing this diagram. Does the original poster have a valve that he turns for winterizing to enable the pump to pull antifreeze from a jug into the plumbing. If he has a valve for that ?
having the valve in the winterizing position would cause exactly what is happening. The pump is trying to pull antifreeze in the winterizing hose and there is nothing there.

I just went back and looked at the original picture. There is a winterizing suction fill. Change the position of that valve from where it is now and try it.
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Old 07-31-2014, 07:33 AM   #33
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I just thought of something seeing this diagram. Does the original poster have a valve that he turns for winterizing to enable the pump to pull antifreeze from a jug into the plumbing. If he has a valve for that ?
having the valve in the winterizing position would cause exactly what is happening. The pump is trying to pull antifreeze in the winterizing hose and there is nothing there.

I just went back and looked at the original picture. There is a winterizing suction fill. Change the position of that valve from where it is now and try it.
Hi Gemini
I do not have the manifold (Water Works) valve assembly, this is what I cut out of the bay. Iím hoping someone who reads this and has the same system and can trace what the valve do. When you look at the original picture in this post there are only 2 valves that actually control the water flow the other 3 are for winterizing and/or adding antifreeze. I need to find out how the water flows when filling the fresh water tank (fill valve) and how it flows after the tank is full and the valve it switched to (use) position. Also Iíd like to find out how the water flows when on city water.
Thanks
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:41 AM   #34
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Looking at your water panel. It is similar in principal to mine. It shows you have a fill position on the valves to send water to the tank. The use position turns off the valves to the tank and the water fill. If the valve to the fill line is not closed, it will draw air into the pump supply line.
Is it possible that one of those valves is upside down or miss-connected.


Another water system diagram..
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:53 AM   #35
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Did you replace any of the valves? In the diagram I provided above, the valve that switches Tank fill to city water and the one at the anti freeze adaptor are 3-way valves, not just on/off ones. The issue you have is that the water from the tank, which should be a bit higher than the pump, must drain down into the pump. Disconnect the supply side of the pump and make sure water freely flows to the pump. If it doesn't, something is set/connected wrong in that area.

In the diagram provided by Hooliganen, the system doesn't use 3-way valves, it uses on/off valves and check valves to do the same thing. If you have that system, make sure the check valves are installed correctly and stopping back flow.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:34 AM   #36
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I think my system is more like Hooliganís my city connection was in the same bay. I did find another small pump in there (see pic) and Iím not sure what it does? Air bags maybe? Also the two water line drain that I put valves on (see pic) I had left open and set them in a bucket of water and they blew a small amount of air bubblesÖso I closed them for now.
I canít get under my RV to look at where the water pump is because I emptied the water tank twice and its very wet there. I canít move it because we have it leveled and extended and are packing for a weekend getaway. Good thing the park has showers! Iíll bring my own water if I donít get this working.
A check valve sounds like a great idea, but I'm not sure where it would go?
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Old 07-31-2014, 12:09 PM   #37
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Air springs would be inflated by the air compressor powered by the main engine that provides air for the brakes. The photo is a bit blurry to identify. If it's an air compressor, it could be for air horns? It could also be an auxiliary water circulation pump as per the diagram I provided, to keep hot water circulating through the water heater.

In Hooligan's diagram, the check valve is to prevent pressurized city water hook up from flowing through the water pump. The valves (E)(A) have to be changed when going from city water to water tank/pump. (A) would have to be open to allow water to go from tank to pump. If (E) was open, the pump could draw air into it and cause loss of prime.
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Old 07-31-2014, 12:23 PM   #38
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Water leak on control valve. See pic

Boy, I hope you can fix this... I am tracking out of curiosity, because I am lost....

I know BF (in this case; Best Friend) is a great help, so hopefully his feedback will help. I will think others that have knowledge of these things will pipe up (lol) with some advice as well....
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Old 07-31-2014, 12:58 PM   #39
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Before you do any more work it sounds like you need to learn some vocabulary if you already know this I apologize but some of the comments make me think you do not know what certain things do. Maybe I can help with that and go from there

2 way valve - Usually has a handle that you move to direct the flow of water from one port to another port. IN Rv circles usually a two way valve is used to direct city water from outside the RV. in one position it directs water to the port with the fill hose to the fresh water tank. When you move the handle to the other position it directs water to the hose going into the plumbing this hose will go to a Y fitting. The output side of the pump will go into the other opening in the y fitting. The output of the Y fitting goes to the faucets, commode etc.

Check Valve - This will be a valve that allows water flow to only go through in one direction. It blocks water that tries to flow through it from the other end. Usually a check valve will have an arrow on it to indicate the correct flow direction. Check valves will usually be found on the output of the pump with the flow going from the port hooked to the pump through the valve and out to the y fitting connecting to the faucets. Some pumps have a check valve built in and sometimes you find a check valve on the input side of the pump with the output side of the valve connected to the imput of the pump.


On- Off valve. one port in one port out, water flows in either directions. Has a handle that you can turn to stop water flow through it. Most valves when the valve is in line with the pipe it is open when valve is turned 90 degrees in relation to the pipe the valve is closed.


I am going to do a generic idea of how it works. Different models are different but this might give you an idea.

You mention that your valve is in use mode or fill mode if I understand correctly. If it is the same valve for both that would be a two way valve. In one position the output of that valve connects with the fill hose for the tank and it would fill the tank in that position. When turned the other way( approximately 90 degrees) You have indicated that is called USE ? it is connected to the hose that goes to a y fitting. This y fitting connects the use side of the 2 way valve to the rest of the plumbing ( when I say plumbing I am talking about the water going to the sinks, shower, hot water heater, commode etc) The other side of the y fitting is connected to a check valve with the check valve positioned to block any water coming from the y fitting into it. The purpose of the check valve is to keep water from going through the Y fitting through the check valve through the pump and into the fresh water tank when the valve is in the use position. If the check valve fails the indication will be your fresh water tank filling when you have the 2 way valve in use position.
All of this apparently is hooked up right because in the use position you said you have water coming out of the plumbing.

Fresh water tank output hose will go into the input side of the pump this will provide water for the pump. In the systems I have seen the pump does not get water from the city. It can only draw water from the fresh water tank. The pump pumps water from the fresh water tank through the check valve to the y fitting that is connected to the rest of the plumbing.

The above explanation is for a simple system. This is for the COLD water system only. The hot water system has its own pipes. There are usually a couple of drain valves and hoses one for the tank, one connected to the cold water plumbing somwhere and one connected to the hot water plumbing somewhere. These will have a on-off valve and a hose coming out underneath the MH. There will sometimes be a couple of other valves that I will list below.

Winterizing/antifreeze. This will be a 2 way valve that will be inserted between the hose from the fresh water tank and the input to the pump. one port of this two way valve will allow the fresh water tank to feed the pump. The other position of the valve will be to a short hose that you can stick down an antifreeze jug and use the pump to pump RV antifreeze through the plumbing. Some systems instead of a 2 way valve will have two on- off valves. You turn off the valve going to the hose for the antifreeze jug and turn on the valve going to the fresh water tank for normal use. To winterize you switch valve positions. Turn off the valve going to the fresh water tank and turn on the valve going to the hose for the antifreeze jug.

Water heater bypass. This will this will be a 2 way valve in the line going from the cold water plumbing to the input of the water heater. In one position it will provide cold water to the water heater to be heated and the output from the water heater will go to the hot water plumbing. In the other position it will redirect the cold water going to the input of the water heater directly to hot water plumbing coming out of the water heater bypassing the water heater. It is used for winterizing the MH. This allows you to pump RV antifreeze into the hot water plumbing without filling the water heater. As far as I know this is mainly for cost savings so you do not have to buy 10 or 6 or whatever gallons of antifreeze to fill the water heater. I believe the water heater output will have a check valve going to the hot water plumbing at the output of the water heater. The bypass valve will bypass the cold water to the plumbing on the blocked side of the check valve so that antifreeze will not be pumped into the hot water heater.

This was a long post and I hope it helps. If there is anything I have said wrong I hope someone will correct me I am always willing to learn and I know there are a lot of people that ha
Before you do any more work it sounds like you need to learn some vocabulary if you already know this I apologize but some of the comments make me think you do not know what certain things do. Maybe I can help with that and go from there

2 way valve - Usually has a handle that you move to direct the flow of water from one port to another port. IN Rv circles usually a two way valve is used to direct city water from outside the RV. in one position it directs water to the port with the fill hose to the fresh water tank. When you move the handle to the other position it directs water to the hose going into the plumbing this hose will go to a Y fitting. The output side of the pump will go into the other opening in the y fitting. The output of the Y fitting goes to the faucets, commode etc.

Check Valve - This will be a valve that allows water flow to only go through in one direction. It blocks water that tries to flow through it from the other end. Usually a check valve will have an arrow on it to indicate the correct flow direction. Check valves will usually be found on the output of the pump with the flow going from the port hooked to the pump through the valve and out to the y fitting connecting to the faucets. Some pumps have a check valve built in and sometimes you find a check valve on the input side of the pump with the output side of the valve connected to the imput of the pump.


On- Off valve. one port in one port out, water flows in either directions. Has a handle that you can turn to stop water flow through it. Most valves when the valve is in line with the pipe it is open when valve is turned 90 degrees in relation to the pipe the valve is closed.


I am going to do a generic idea of how it works. Different models are different but this might give you an idea.

You mention that your valve is in use mode or fill mode if I understand correctly. If it is the same valve for both that would be a two way valve. In one position the output of that valve connects with the fill hose for the tank and it would fill the tank in that position. When turned the other way( approximately 90 degrees) You have indicated that is called USE ? it is connected to the hose that goes to a y fitting. This y fitting connects the use side of the 2 way valve to the rest of the plumbing ( when I say plumbing I am talking about the water going to the sinks, shower, hot water heater, commode etc) The other side of the y fitting is connected to a check valve with the check valve positioned to block any water coming from the y fitting into it. The purpose of the check valve is to keep water from going through the Y fitting through the check valve through the pump and into the fresh water tank when the valve is in the use position. If the check valve fails the indication will be your fresh water tank filling when you have the 2 way valve in use position.
All of this apparently is hooked up right because in the use position you said you have water coming out of the plumbing.

Fresh water tank output hose will go into the input side of the pump this will provide water for the pump. In the systems I have seen the pump does not get water from the city. It can only draw water from the fresh water tank. The pump pumps water from the fresh water tank through the check valve to the y fitting that is connected to the rest of the plumbing.

The above explanation is for a simple system. This is for the COLD water system only. The hot water system has its own pipes. There are usually a couple of drain valves and hoses one for the tank, one connected to the cold water plumbing somwhere and one connected to the hot water plumbing somewhere. These will have a on-off valve and a hose coming out underneath the MH. There will sometimes be a couple of other valves that I will list below.

Winterizing/antifreeze. This will be a 2 way valve that will be inserted between the hose from the fresh water tank and the input to the pump. one port of this two way valve will allow the fresh water tank to feed the pump. The other position of the valve will be to a short hose that you can stick down an antifreeze jug and use the pump to pump RV antifreeze through the plumbing. Some systems instead of a 2 way valve will have two on- off valves. You turn off the valve going to the hose for the antifreeze jug and turn on the valve going to the fresh water tank for normal use. To winterize you switch valve positions. Turn off the valve going to the fresh water tank and turn on the valve going to the hose for the antifreeze jug.

Water heater bypass. This will this will be a 2 way valve in the line going from the cold water plumbing to the input of the water heater. In one position it will provide cold water to the water heater to be heated and the output from the water heater will go to the hot water plumbing. In the other position it will redirect the cold water going to the input of the water heater directly to hot water plumbing coming out of the water heater bypassing the water heater. It is used for winterizing the MH. This allows you to pump RV antifreeze into the hot water plumbing without filling the water heater. As far as I know this is mainly for cost savings so you do not have to buy 10 or 6 or whatever gallons of antifreeze to fill the water heater. I believe the water heater output will have a check valve going to the hot water plumbing at the output of the water heater. The bypass valve will bypass the cold water to the plumbing on the blocked side of the check valve so that antifreeze will not be pumped into the hot water heater.

This was a long post and I hope it helps. If there is anything I have said wrong I hope someone will correct me I am always willing to learn and I know there are a lot of people that ve worked on more MH than me.

I just realized I used the term Y fitting in most cases they are usually t fittings both do the same job I just happened to be thinking y when I wrote this.
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:15 PM   #40
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Thanks Gemini for the breakdown of terminology for the system. The “use” and “fill” valve are on/off valves. They are the top two valves in the first picture in this post. If you click on the picture it will enlarge.
I attached a primitive drawing (I know I’m not an artist lol) of what it looked like in the bay. What I did was cut the PEX and on/off valved both the hot and cold supply lines to the faucet/shower head. Then I cut the PEX and on/off valved the hot/cold vent lines. Then I cut the main water supply line to the tank, installed a ball valve and a female hose connection. Every one of the PEX lines I cut and valved hot/cold water, hot/cold drain lines and the main supply line ran to the backside of the valve manifold and where connected to various valves. Also the X’s is where I placed the valves
I assumed that if I could fill the main fresh water tank I’d have water and pressure. “Never Assume”
I think somehow that cold and hot water supply played a part in this. They both went to a valve(s) on the manifold before going to the faucet. Why wouldn’t they just run the PEX straight to the faucet? In trying to figure this out I also attached a hose connection (temporary) to the cold water supply line, right where the (X cut) is in the drawing, turned on the hose and that is when I had water/pressure in the system. The minute I turned of the hose water the system went flat.
I could kick myself for not keeping the old parts.

PS that big square box on the drawing is the manifold with the 5-valaves that I removed.
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:20 PM   #41
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Boy, I hope you can fix this... I am tracking out of curiosity, because I am lost....

I know BF (in this case; Best Friend) is a great help, so hopefully his feedback will help. I will think others that have knowledge of these things will pipe up (lol) with some advice as well....
There is great feedback on this site. Thank God!
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:22 PM   #42
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Air springs would be inflated by the air compressor powered by the main engine that provides air for the brakes. The photo is a bit blurry to identify. If it's an air compressor, it could be for air horns? It could also be an auxiliary water circulation pump as per the diagram I provided, to keep hot water circulating through the water heater.

In Hooligan's diagram, the check valve is to prevent pressurized city water hook up from flowing through the water pump. The valves (E)(A) have to be changed when going from city water to water tank/pump. (A) would have to be open to allow water to go from tank to pump. If (E) was open, the pump could draw air into it and cause loss of prime.
Thanks for the info. I feel we are getting close.
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