Community Forums

Beeper · 08-12-2014, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeandRuth

Those pumps are not impeller pumps. They are multivalved and do self prime. That one looks like a Shurflo to me. A pump that won't shut off can have two problems. First a column of air ahead of it that is cleared by opening a faucet. Second, an air source on the pickup side that allows air into the suction side. My vote is number two based on reading your posts.
I do not believe your pump is faulty and I wouldn't run out and replace it.
These pumps are not cheap, and you need to and get the model that is configured for the design of your system, which does not have an accumulator tank. Pumps that are intended for a system with an accumulator will not tolerate the constant on/off the pump experiences in your system. Flojet is another manufacturer. I like them best myself, but to each his own. Flojet makes a package with an accumulator that would fit right under your fridge. Both brands are used in the marine industry, which is where I used them. These pumps can be run dry for a period of time with no damage, but I wouldn't do it intentionally. Mine ran for a couple of hours a few years back. We were on the road with not much water in the tank. The crown in the road shifted the water to the passenger side of the tank and the pump went dry. It is still going strong!
I agree with the other guys! You need an accurate schematic and all pipes need to be correctly identified before you start over!.

I’ve been searching for a schematic to no avail. I stopped by the local RV and they said they do not have a schematic but if I bring it in they would troubleshoot it.
Thanks for the advice on the Flojet pump….I used (AC) Flojet when we had a cottage in northern Wisconsin and we were very happy with it.
And I also want to thank all of you for not abandoning this thread.

Beeper · 08-12-2014, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFlinn181

An RV water pump is 12 v DC, has a back flow valve and a pressure switch to shut off when the plumbing system is up to pressure. I don't think you'll find one at Home Depot. They are available at most RV supply houses, Amazon, Ebay, etc. Also, your pump might be very repairable, running it without water could mean the impeller heated up, melted, and stalled the motor. A rebuild kit is available for many models.

I'm going to try and get the pump out soon so I can get the model numbers and which way the water flows. I'll check the rebuild possibility too. Thanks

MikeandRuth · 08-12-2014, 12:25 PM

In my experience,these pumps die two ways..
One is trash getting into the valves, and the symptom is reduced or no water flow, or the motor fails and the pump won't run.
As I said earlier, I wouldn't pitch that existing pump without testing it since it seemed to be fine until the other day and you didn't let it run excessively.
Again, there is no impeller! A cam on the motor shaft opens and closes four rubber valves, two in, two out. Using a cam staggers the suction and push to eliminate pulsing in the flow.
I would verify the pump model number with a qualified distributor before I bought one on Ebay. Many sellers have no clue about the tech side of stuff they are pedaling.
Shurflo and Flojet both make many models that all look the same, but are intended for many different applications. If you are going to spend the money, you might as well get the correct model.

gemini5362 · 08-12-2014, 11:32 PM

Beeper you are jumping around too much. I am not an RV mechanic but I do have several rental houses and do all the work on them myself. I completely replumbed one of them and I did all the pumbing in my house myself so I have a pretty good idea behind the basics of all plumbing.

1. I do not think your pump is bad
2. I do not think you have a water line going from the fresh water tank to the pump
3. I think you have some of the new valves you installed shut off or some check valves installed in the wrong direction.
4. Until you figure out where some of the water lines actually go you are not going to be able to fix this.

Now with the above I am going to suggest that you take your portable air tank and remove the input side of the pump it will either show you input and output or it will have an arrow. take the line going into the input line loose and blow air out of it until you find it at the other end. Mark this line with a piece of tape with writing on it. Now open up the valve from the tank I you are sure you have water in the tank. See which line the water is coming out of. Hook those two lines up first and see if your pump works and pumps water into the sinks, shower, commode etc.

Anything else you do other than the above is a total waste of time.

I have never seen a plumbing diagram for any Recreational vehicle for some reason the companies do not give them out.

"007" · 08-12-2014, 11:44 PM

The fuse maybe good how about the other side to ground?

Beeper · 08-14-2014, 12:46 PM

So I had some time today and I removed the pump and did some testing. See pictures.
1. Tried the pump one more time before I removed it and nothing happened so I removed it
2. I attached a 12 volt light to the pump electrical wires just to verify there is power there and the light worked
3. I got a 12 volt boat battery and connected the pump and the pump ran. So I rigged a hose and a bucket of water and it pumped water out the pump.
4. I put the pump back in the coach, I did not connect the waterlines, and the pumped ran.
5. Now I put some blue colored water down the water (in/supply) side of the pump, and blew air in the line and the blue water came out the “water drain line”. If you look at the very first (post #1) picture I posted you can see where the hot and cold drain lines empty through the floor of the bay. That is where the water came out.
In the picture it is the white PEX line that does not have an on/off valve on it.
6. I only installed on/off valves on the (5) lines in that bay, I do not have any other check valves or on/off valve up or downstream of the pump
We are almost there guys!
Thoughts?

Beeper · 08-14-2014, 12:55 PM

Here is another picture of the hot/cold drain lines before I cut them off. They have the green and yellow tape on them. Thanks

Hooligan · 08-14-2014, 03:36 PM

Progress---
The input line to the pump is going to the low drain (G) which should have a shutoff valve (normally closed). (post#34) If that valve is open, the pump will only draw air. With that valve closed, the pump should be connected to the water tank and draw water.
But- the tank would also drain when that shutoff valve is open, and apparently it does not. That line may be missing or turned off (valve A ?)..
Find the outlet from the water tank and get it to the input of the pump...
The pump does have a built-in check valve to prevent back flow into the tank......

Beeper · 08-14-2014, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooligan

Progress---
The input line to the pump is going to the low drain (G) which should have a shutoff valve (normally closed). (post#34) If that valve is open, the pump will only draw air. With that valve closed, the pump should be connected to the water tank and draw water.
But- the tank would also drain when that shutoff valve is open, and apparently it does not. That line may be missing or turned off (valve A ?)..
Find the outlet from the water tank and get it to the input of the pump...
The pump does have a built-in check valve to prevent back flow into the tank......

On post #8 the first picture with the brass ball valve is where I am able to fill the fresh water and hot water tanks. Also if I fill the tank(s) and do not close the ball valve the tanks will drain back out.
Do you think I need to connect that line to the low drain (G) line? It seems to me that the low drain line is the supply line if that’s where the blue water blew out. I still do not think this is a gravity fed system.

Beeper · 08-14-2014, 07:18 PM

I just hooked up the water tank fill line to the "low drain line: (G) and opened the other low drain line and the water pumped out like a rocket. Then I closed the valve on the drain line where the water was coming out and the pump pressurized and shut off.
The pictures are from right to left and show the water line (flow) and the 4th picture is where the water shot out of the “other” lower drain line.
So I think I need to tie the lower drain line where the water comes out to the cold water line that fed the cold water of the faucet/outside shower head. You can see the grey stub connection in picture #3 that I think I should connect to.
Look at post #70 that is the one that when the garden hose is connected to it the faucets all flowed great. However I did find out today that I think that maybe the hot water line and I think it should be opposite and/or the cold water line.
The last picture shows the 4 lines protruding below the pump on the opposite side of the coach.

Thoughts?

gemini5362 · 08-14-2014, 09:24 PM

I am glad you took our advice and blew water out the pump input line. It sounds like the line from the tank going to the drain/ pump input line maybe be correctly hooked up now. You said when you hooked the lines up to the pump it pumped up to pressure and shut off. Did you mean that you put the pump back into place and hooked it up to the input and output lines that were originally hooked to it. If you did that and it pumped up and shut off then you should be able to get water out of the cold side of the faucets does that happen. If it does not happen try opening some valves and see if you can get it to happen. You are correct though you have showed a lot of improvement. NOw all you have to do is get it so that you pressurize the water heater, can switch between the campground water and pump. and if you want to hook it up so that you can add antifreeze from the antifreeze bottle using the pump and also you need to hook up the bypass to your water heater.

Beeper · 08-15-2014, 11:53 AM

First I want to thank all of you for sticking with this thread and all your great input.
I bought a couple more T couplings and I now have flowing water hot and cold. I attached a picture of the final valve job.
Now I just have to clean things up and go on to the next project. Oh-oh!
Thanks much for your help….
PS. My wife asked why I always used “we” in my post….she said she had nothing to do with it. lol

tedgard01 · 08-15-2014, 11:57 AM

Great news!

Are you going to put any face plate back in place? What are you doing to document the current piping configuration for future use in repair to trouble shooting that may come up?

Ted

Beeper · 08-15-2014, 12:02 PM

I forgot the pic.

The hose connections have quick connects on them. The one closest has a check valve and is my city water fill and the one with the ball valve is my fresh water tank fill.
I (we) still wonder why they would put the fresh water fill in the same bay with the black/grey water dumping valves…that is just stupid. I will keep a spray bottle with a bleach and water mixture in that bay so I can sanitize the valve before filling.