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Old 06-06-2013, 08:59 AM   #1
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Water pump circuitry question

Fellow RVer asked me to help after he installed 2 twelve volt batts in series (24 volts) in place of the two sixes he took out. Now the coach 12 volt water pump cannot be switched on.

Unit is a 94 Fleetwood Southwind. It has three "momentary on" rocker switches--one at panel on range hood, one in bath room and one by water pump in basement bay by water tank. The pump and pressure switch are OK--jumped wires to check. The 12 volt "hot" lead to pump is good--12 volts--but we cannot get the "ground" wire to provide a circuit. There must be a "holding relay" somewhere.

Evidently the "momentary on" switches cycle a relay somewhere to keep the pump running but we cannot find the relay. Is my thinking correct?

Need help with circuit theory and where possibly to find the relay.

He only had 24 volts for a few seconds before he realized his mistake.

Thanks for any help.
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:06 AM   #2
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First check all the 12 volt fuses in the fuse box. All MH have two fuse boxes and all fuses need to be pulled and checked. Even if they look ok. Mine has one left front outside below the driver and one in the bedroom below the bed. Relay should be ok since fused link.
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:43 AM   #3
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My '94 Fleetwood has a small electronic circuit inside a small brown plastic box in the wet bay close to the pump that controls things. Then there is an in-line fuse right near the pump.

Basically, what happens is when you press one of the switches, it indirectly (through the electronic circuit) turns on and holds on a small relay (though it could also be a transistor switch). The pressure switch inside the pump determines how long it should run and when it should turn off.
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:03 AM   #4
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Bruce- you have me stumped by the 24v setup.
1) why 24v?
2) since the original platform is 100% 12v, could you have burned up the pump relay w/too high voltage?

Fyi the pump relay is a latching relay. It can be wired with momentary switches on either the 12v leg or the ground leg. So the momentary switches either complete a 12v (hot) connection to the latching relay, or it completed the ground leg. First momentary contact latches the relay ON, second momentary contact latches it OFF.
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:33 PM   #5
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You have three places to check. The pump's in-line fuse (should be within a foot of the pump). The relay (also close to the pump). The multiplexer that controls the switches.
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:40 PM   #6
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I hope he installed the 12V batteries in parallel, not series. 24V will cause lots of problems.
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:53 PM   #7
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I would have guessed "in parallel" but he said "in series (24 volts)"
Possibly the OP helped the coach owner fix the series wiring to parallel, and then started to debug the subject of the thread.
In either case, if things were fired up 24V, they could have fried (pump, pump relay, and other stuff in the coach as well).
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Old 06-06-2013, 05:10 PM   #8
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There is indeed a pump controller that accepts the signals from each of the pump switches. The pump controller is typically located rather near the pump, but the exact location is at the convenience of the folks who built the coach. You will just have to hunt for it. It is not a large device - probably 2"x3", just large enough to accept the number of switch wires necessary and an output 12v line to the pump. Internally it is very simple and could probably fit on a postage stamp.

If he really hooked the 12v's in series, there is no telling what 12v power items have been burned out. It is going to be "interesting times' for awhile until all the problems are found.
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Old 06-06-2013, 05:39 PM   #9
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6 volt batteries are hooked up in series to make 12 volts, 12 volt batteries are hooked up parallel and have 12 volts. If he hooked the 12 volt batteries up in series he fried something. Jim
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Old 06-06-2013, 05:48 PM   #10
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Water pump monoplex

The doohickey is called a monoplex switch.

If the pump is on a toggle on any of the switches will turn it off, if off it will toggle to on.

There are transistors in both of mine and it's quite possible that 24 volts burned them out in your friends coach.

But look for a blown fuse first......
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Old 06-06-2013, 06:55 PM   #11
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Look under the refrigerator. It looks like this

Here is the diagrams and instructions. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0Controler.pdf
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:43 PM   #12
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What happened--My friend went to fleet store--they were the cheapest-- and purchased two 12 volt deep cycle marine batteries as the coach had two batteries. He did not realize original batteries were 6 volt connected in series--12 volts. He then proceeded to connect the two 12 volt in series for 24 volts. He then turned on the lites and water pump for a few seconds and then turned off. He realized something was wrong when he tried starting the generator and the generator starter on 24 volts achieved max governed rpm before it even started!! That is when he called me.
We rewired the batteries in parallel for 12 volts and proceeded to check things out. A few bulbs were fried but all fuses good. Everything works OK but cannot switch the water pump off or on. There is "hot" 12 volts to the water pump but cannot get a ground circuit completed to the battery--water pump and pressure switch work fine when using another ground circuit.

We have literally pulled the coach apart trying to find the latching relay but cannot find it. Dealer has given us hints as to where to possibly look but to no avail either. Yes--we were under the refrigerator also. One of the three switches is on a control panel on the front of the range hood. I pulled the hood down but not apart--maybe in there? We can see where most of the wires go but have not found the relay yet.

Having working in the marine industry all my life I am used to working in these unorganized rat's nests. It is pathetic they put these things together the way they do and charge what they do. I own a 2008 Tiffin Allegro and it is a some better than others I have had but far from what should be built and marketed. From what I have seen big dollars does not buy quality design or workmanship. My Allegro at least has somewhat of a wiring diagram but it is only half there so of limited use.

Thanks to all for the inputs--we are learning--the solution will be found.

p.s.--It must be a common failing part as multiple dealers had in inventory.
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:51 PM   #13
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Check the all your ground cables to chassis frame, fuse panels, batteries, Gen, converter etc, etc.
The devise in this post may need to be replaced.

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Old 06-06-2013, 09:43 PM   #14
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Fleetwood liked to hide them either in the space behind the main breaker panel or near the converter. Lots of converters were located beneath the refrigerator or behind furnace grills. Look under drawers and even the bed.
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