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Old 10-20-2015, 11:24 AM   #57
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FWIW It sounds like the inverter transfer setup has the capability of splitting the L1-L2 connection then powering one leg from the inverter and the other from the shore feed. That I could understand. Basic circuit would switch L1 or L2 from line to inverter.
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:58 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by BFlinn181 View Post
My concern is the statement highlighted in red. How are you connected to 30 amp service? Most adaptors or pigtails to plug in a 50 amp shore cord to a 30 amp outlet distribute the 30 amps across both L1 and L2 since half the RV would be without power if only one leg was powered. Do you have a special adaptor?

I wouldn't want folks to read your post and think that all 30 to 50 amp adaptors leave one leg of the 50 amp service unconnected.
I understand your confusion now. The is a good question worth of clarification. This is true to some extent. The L1/L2 of the coach are tied to the L1 of the pedestal via the dog bone. Thus, the sub panel is using the same 120V/30A service as the main panel in your rig. The now common shore power is being passed through the power cord and through the main transfer switch on both L1 and L2 with L1 going directly to the main panel and L2 going to the sub-panel through the inverter transfer switch as usual. The difference here is the mechanical modification of the dog bone and the common power source of 30A.

When my coach detects that the 30A limit is being approached and the inverter is capable of supplementing the power (smarts in the inverter) the transfer switch built into the inverter operates and supplies the needed power to the sub-panel from the batteries through the inverter. Thus the 120V/18A source. When this happens the main panel has all of the 30A from the pedestal available to use and some shedded load can be put back in service. My EMS will drop loads in priority on need to preserve power integrity.

I hope this explanation helps you. Nothing is magic. It is all built to work as it does.

Happy trails,

Rick Y
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:51 AM   #59
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Rick, does your EMS detect the difference between 30 amp and 50 amp service itself or do you have to switch it to "connected to 30 amp only?" I guess it would be possible to detect that the L1 and L2 are in the same phase, thus not unique 'hots' 180 out of phase as in 50 amp RV service.
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:43 PM   #60
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Seems like this is kinda beat to death but put simply the Inverter produces 120v ac power from the 12vdc house batteries, you only need inverter power to run AC loads when you are not connected to shore power or have your genset running, some "smarter" systems can use inverter power to supplement a lower powered shore power connection. That said the inverter can put quite a load on your house batteries, I prefer to leave mine off or in manual mode unless I need to activate it myself.
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:00 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by BFlinn181 View Post
My concern is the statement highlighted in red. How are you connected to 30 amp service? Most adaptors or pigtails to plug in a 50 amp shore cord to a 30 amp outlet distribute the 30 amps across both L1 and L2 since half the RV would be without power if only one leg was powered. Do you have a special adaptor?

I wouldn't want folks to read your post and think that all 30 to 50 amp adaptors leave one leg of the 50 amp service unconnected.
I think there is just one leg. In fact 50A is a bit like 2 x 50A. The 30A service is single phase.

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Old 10-21-2015, 05:59 PM   #62
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My RV is 50 amp service. I have adaptors to reduce it to 30 or even 15 amp regular outlet plug. At no time do I only have power in one leg of the 50 amp system in my RV. cbilodeau's diagram shows an adaptor to connect 50 amp service to a 30 amp cord or RV. That works if you only have a 30 amp RV. In a 50 amp one, the adaptor must have a male 30 amp plug going to a 50 amp female plug. In that case, the 30 amp hot is split between both L1 and L2 hot leads to provide power to both sides in a 50 amp breaker panel.

You quoted me but didn't understand, I guess. I was talking about going from a 30 amp pedestal to a 50 amp RV. jerichorick understood and explained that his sub panel in the inverter has it's own transfer switch to prevent the inverter's power separate from the power coming in both legs of the 50 amp cord, even though it's only got capacity for 30 amps, as per the breaker on the pedestal.
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Old 10-21-2015, 06:38 PM   #63
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My RV is 50 amp service. I have adaptors to reduce it to 30 or even 15 amp regular outlet plug. At no time do I only have power in one leg of the 50 amp system in my RV. cbilodeau's diagram shows an adaptor to connect 50 amp service to a 30 amp cord or RV. That works if you only have a 30 amp RV. In a 50 amp one, the adaptor must have a male 30 amp plug going to a 50 amp female plug. In that case, the 30 amp hot is split between both L1 and L2 hot leads to provide power to both sides in a 50 amp breaker panel.

You quoted me but didn't understand, I guess. I was talking about going from a 30 amp pedestal to a 50 amp RV. jerichorick understood and explained that his sub panel in the inverter has it's own transfer switch to prevent the inverter's power separate from the power coming in both legs of the 50 amp cord, even though it's only got capacity for 30 amps, as per the breaker on the pedestal.
50A on a 1998. I am impressed. Too much work for me now but good project.
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Old 10-21-2015, 07:48 PM   #64
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Please tell us what "walk-thru/demo" you did?

Our coach has a 2800 watt true sine wave inverter. We also have the French door residential refrigerator. The 6 AGM batteries supply power to the inverter to give the refrigerator the 120VAC it needs while we travel or dry dock. When we are on 30A service the inverter will give us about an 18A supplement boost if we draw too much power from the pedestal. When the batteries need charging and we are on shore power, or if the inverter calls the generator into action, the inverter charges the batteries.

The guy who conducted your tour proves that ignorance is not bliss.

Happy trails,
Rick Y
im not sure what all that means but our fridge s supposed to switch to best available pwer when set on automatic; however, when we switch from lp to dc it doesnt work. Would this have anything to do with the inverter?
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:00 PM   #65
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Learning curve is very steep at this point. We just learned last night the amount of usage we can get from a full tank of propane since we ran out of heat in the middle of the night in the mountains and woke up shivering with no hot water. Had to pack up, pull in the slides and go on a caravan to find an LP supplier then return and do it all again. Still not fun but hoping we will grow a brain.
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:43 PM   #66
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AgentTaylor, I just skimmed through your owner's manual. What a generic fluff piece. Very little real detail on anything, never a positive statement about what your RV is exactly equipped with.

http://www.jayco.com/files/downloads...ecept%20OM.pdf

Your refrigerator is an 8 cu ft Norcold. Most likely it operates on 12 volts for control purposes, but heating the evaporation coils only happens when connected to 120 v or LP gas.(or run generator) On 12 v alone, the interior light will work but no cooling. There are some 3 way refrigerators, that actually use 12 v for heating the refrigerator, but they are only to be used when the engine is running because they will discharge the battery quickly.

Speaking of battery, the manual mentions that you only have one 12 v house battery. That would be very marginal to power a night of lights, furnace, etc. Adding a second 12 v battery or a couple of 6 v wired in series will add greatly to your peace of mind.
The inverter is identified as a 1000 watt unit, provided by Xantrex. The only instructions in the Owner's manual cautions not to use it with medical equipment. Very illuminating!! At 1000 watts, you can power the TV and DVD, charge phones or a laptop, but it's a bit small to brew coffee or run the microwave.

No capacities are listed, but your LP tank should be good for a number of days of furnace use. In cool weather, always enter a campground with a full tank. It's often cheaper to get the LP at a independent dealer, campgrounds would have to inject gold dust to justify their mark ups.
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Old 10-22-2015, 05:24 AM   #67
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Thank you for your reply, BFlinn. We opted for the larger fridge which is SUPPOSED to switch between AC, DC and LP automatically applying the most efficient power available according to our walk-thru technician but it has not been operating that way. Obviously, we could be at fault. Also I'm sure there are two large batteries above the propane tank. Wouldn't those be the 12Vs or are they DC batteries? I don't know the difference. I do know we have had to jump off the coach and the chassis after having this rig only a month. We don't know what we are doing wrong that is causing the batteries to either not recharge or to run down but we are being extra careful and starting the chassis motor every couple of days. Clearly we are not mechanically inclined.
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Old 10-22-2015, 08:22 AM   #68
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My, Ricky, you sure do like to use the word ignorance don't you?

Can you make a wiring diagram I.e. a circuit diagram of what you are talking about please. If your extra amperage is fed to both legs please show the feedback prevention device/circuit.

If you just isolate l1 and l2 no need.
I don't think I can help you. Your need for sarcasm seems to be greater than your need to read what I have described clearly.

I am not mean spirited and I did not start the name calling. I simply reflected it back to the source.

Please read up on the terms Main Service Panel and Sub Service Panel. Then read my explanation again.

Rick Y
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Old 10-22-2015, 08:48 AM   #69
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interesting side note that we have dealt with on several occasions:

when parked and plugged into shore power, later, out of the blue, we have had the generator start automatically(AGS)...

one thing we realized is that with an INVERTER, you may not even realize that your shore power has been lost. since ours runs basically everything onboard, you would not realize it unless you look at the inverter panel to see that it is 'Inverting' versus 'Charging'. The AGS is a good signal, and a good way to keep the coach from going dark if batteries are getting exhausted, but I have not yet found a way to know if shore power is lost since the Inverter picks up the power automatically, especially if you can't see the inverter panel, or are asleep... interesting....
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Old 10-22-2015, 10:13 AM   #70
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Thank you for your reply, BFlinn. We opted for the larger fridge which is SUPPOSED to switch between AC, DC and LP automatically applying the most efficient power available according to our walk-thru technician but it has not been operating that way. Obviously, we could be at fault. Also I'm sure there are two large batteries above the propane tank. Wouldn't those be the 12Vs or are they DC batteries? I don't know the difference. I do know we have had to jump off the coach and the chassis after having this rig only a month. We don't know what we are doing wrong that is causing the batteries to either not recharge or to run down but we are being extra careful and starting the chassis motor every couple of days. Clearly we are not mechanically inclined.
I'd need to know the make and model of the refrigerator to be sure, but if it does have a 12 v heater perhaps it won't come on when the voltage is too low. The two batteries above the LP tank are direct current, all batteries are. I would imagine they are your house batteries, responsible for operating the house functions of the RV. Your chassis battery, probably near the engine, operates the starting and driving functions.

The house batteries have a number of 'phantom drains' that need power to maintain memory settings, time, etc. If you leave the RV unplugged the batteries will be discharged. In the manual I linked earlier, pg 6-3 starts a good description of your house battery system. 12.7 v is the voltage reading of a fully charged battery. They are considered discharged when the voltage drops to 11.8 v and 'dead' when it drops to 11.65 v. Recharging them takes many hours either on the engine alternator or the built in converter/charger.

At your entrance door there is a battery isolation switch that turns off most of the battery drains from the house system when the RV is not being used. It doesn't isolate the batteries completely, a number of phantom draws will continue to use power, but it slows down the discharge rate.

If you store the RV where it could possibly be hooked up to 120 v electricity, it would be wise to do so. The manual is vague about whether your RV is 30 amp or 50 amp service. 30 amp would have a 3 prong plug, 50 amp has a 4 prong plug.


Caution, while the 30 amp or 50 amp plug may look like a dryer or stove plug, they are wired differently. Plugging a 30 amp RV into a dryer outlet will cost greatly in that it's wired to provide 240 volts instead of 120 volts. Don't make that mistake.

Various adaptors can be purchased at Walmart, Amazon, etc. to reduce the plug from 50-to-30 amp, then step it down again from 30-to-15(20) amps. I'd get the apropriate adaptors to plug your RV into a heavy extension cord and plug in to any available outlet. When on a 15 amp outlet, common to home exteriors, you will be able to maintain the batteries with the on board converter/charger, operate a few lights, a fan, etc. You won't be able to use the microwave, air conditioners, and other high power electric using devices, but you could operate the refrigerator and/or the TV. Just pay attention to the watt needs of the things you wish to operate.

If plugged in to an outlet for long time storage, your batteries will be kept charged and it will extend their life. The only maintenance needed is to periodically check the water levels in the batteries and remove and clean the battery terminals to maintain good electrical flow.

Today's homes and cars are meant to work with little attention. An RV is built with many of the conveniences of a modern home or car, but the ability to move that home down the road requires the owner to have to learn what's different to give you that freedom. Don't feel bad about not knowing. The fact that you're asking questions is the key.

-Bob
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