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Old 05-03-2015, 12:57 PM   #29
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gemini5362, a Tiffin Phaeton 42lh was on my "approved" list.
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Old 05-03-2015, 01:10 PM   #30
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The manufacturers need to institute the Sig Sigma method of manufacturing. These problems would quickly improve but the people at the top need to buy off on it. Right now it's a vicious circle. The manufacturer blows the product out the door. The dealer sells it. You the customer debuggs it. The dealer makes more money to do the repairs. Sig Sigma works very well in our manufacturing industry and would increase product dependability, fit and finish and decrease time per unit in construction. It would be a win-win all around. Google it.
I believe that's "Six Sigma". And yes, you're correct - that would help. A lot.
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Old 05-03-2015, 07:46 PM   #31
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I think there is a certain irony that most of those who are complaining about the quality of coaches are people driving units that are anywhere from 10 to 20 years old. Of the 31 posts on this thread, only two are coaches that are less than two years old. Kind of odd that people who are complaining about the quality of the current crop of coaches are folks who own units that are 10, 15, and 20 years old. I don't see complaints from folks owning new units on this thread.

Just an interesting observation.
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Old 05-03-2015, 07:54 PM   #32
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Us old guys remember when the US auto industry was the same way turning out mediocre cars that we happily bought, then Toyota came along and showed that high quality cars could be built to compete with US cars at all price levels and it changed the entire industry. I think we just need for the Toyota of RV makers to come along and do the same thing.
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Old 05-03-2015, 08:55 PM   #33
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Maybe they need to quit adding so much crap and concentrate on building a quality product. No wait they'd still do a crappy job, they just can't help themselves, it's all they know...

I gotta tell ya. I'm new to all this and don't own anything yet. When I went to two different RV shows in the past year I starting noticing crap early on. I won't mention who but it was so noticeable to me a novice that I started looking at and seeing the poor craftsmanship in the stairwell before I actually set foot in the salon. I looked at many mid 2000's units while in Florida first so I guess I was use to seeing and feeling what I thought they all felt like. Once I started looking at newer units boy was I in for a surprise!
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Old 05-03-2015, 09:44 PM   #34
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It's a double-edged sword. Things may have been manufactured to higher standards years ago, but age takes its toll on everything. The transmission computer on our 15 year-old Beaver failed and left us stranded, and it took Stewart and Stevenson 3 days, which we spent in their parking lot, to find one. That's the risk one takes trying to extend the useful life of an aging RV.
The Newer units will Age worse in reliability than the older ones in many cases. If you go back into the mid 90s Transmissions didn't have electronics to operate them.
You may have seen some of my postings about reliabilbity/model year.
I see the best example every school day in my current Job as a school bus driver.
We have 18 routes and 4 spare buses. the spares have NEVER left a driver stranded, they also do not have ANY electronics on the engines or transmissions.
Our most costly Buses to repair and maintain are the newest Freightliners.
We had a 02 freightliner just "shut off" while idling at the school about a month ago. the engine computer just up and died. $2500 later it was back on the road. while it was in the garage for 2 weeks the drive drove a 95 Ford spare to haul the kids in.
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Old 05-03-2015, 10:01 PM   #35
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We bought a new Winnie Adventurer 3 years ago and have no quality complaints!!
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Old 05-04-2015, 08:05 AM   #36
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I think there is a certain irony that most of those who are complaining about the quality of coaches are people driving units that are anywhere from 10 to 20 years old. Of the 31 posts on this thread, only two are coaches that are less than two years old. Kind of odd that people who are complaining about the quality of the current crop of coaches are folks who own units that are 10, 15, and 20 years old. I don't see complaints from folks owning new units on this thread.

Just an interesting observation.
I have a long list of poor workmanship on mine. Most of which can be traced back to employees that just don't give a s%&*
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Old 05-04-2015, 08:13 AM   #37
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I have a long list of poor workmanship on mine. Most of which can be traced back to employees that just don't give a s%&*

Rod, I'm curious as to what Newmar has had to say with your issues. We are looking at a Newmar right now and it is on a very short list for us. It's been our understanding that Newmar comes to bat when there are issues. Has that not been the case.

Issues we have had with our Berkshire were resolved quickly and without hesitation by either the dealer or the factory. The issues were minimal for the most part. The one major issue we had resulted in Forest River replacing all six tires, the front axle and the front airbags. All were done without charge to us.
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Old 05-04-2015, 01:49 PM   #38
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I believe that's "Six Sigma". And yes, you're correct - that would help. A lot.
Dang spell check. You are correct sir.

Six Sigma is a set of techniques and tools for process improvement. It was developed by Motorola in 1986. Jack Welch made it central to his business strategy at General Electric in 1995. Today, it is used in many industrial sectors.

As far as the post on here being from people with older coaches. IMHO those coaches that were made before the resession were much better built than the way the newer ones are. Manufactures are really watching their $$$$$ and I would assume that a lot of folks retired that worked in the industry. That in itself can a have a big effect on manufacturing.
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Old 05-04-2015, 02:41 PM   #39
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Rod, I'm curious as to what Newmar has had to say with your issues. We are looking at a Newmar right now and it is on a very short list for us. It's been our understanding that Newmar comes to bat when there are issues. Has that not been the case.

Issues we have had with our Berkshire were resolved quickly and without hesitation by either the dealer or the factory. The issues were minimal for the most part. The one major issue we had resulted in Forest River replacing all six tires, the front axle and the front airbags. All were done without charge to us.
I had it back to the dealer for some warranty repairs last fall. It will go back for more warranty work shortly. The dealer is doing what they can. I have nothing bad to say about them. Some things Newmar doesn't want to discuss and it is what it is. I went for a Newmar because I kept hearing about their quality. I'm not seeing it. Customer service told me they would not do anything. My wife called them and talked to them about some issues. They told her they would call me and talk about it. That was 3 weeks ago and still no call. I'm a little bitter so I'm not the one to ask for a recommendation.
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Old 05-04-2015, 03:45 PM   #40
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I had it back to the dealer for some warranty repairs last fall. It will go back for more warranty work shortly. The dealer is doing what they can. I have nothing bad to say about them. Some things Newmar doesn't want to discuss and it is what it is. I went for a Newmar because I kept hearing about their quality. I'm not seeing it. Customer service told me they would not do anything. My wife called them and talked to them about some issues. They told her they would call me and talk about it. That was 3 weeks ago and still no call. I'm a little bitter so I'm not the one to ask for a recommendation.

Thanks for the response. As a potential customer I would want the good, the bad, and the ugly. Again, thank you.
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Old 05-04-2015, 07:52 PM   #41
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I have owned boats off and on but for most of 40yrs. I have always been lucky with my purchases even on the larger ones with more systems. But shopping for a motorhome and trying to learn about them and making a good choice is starting to worry me.
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Old 05-05-2015, 09:32 AM   #42
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Just got a note from our dealer. They are monitoring our warranty period. They are asking us to get whatever items we have issues with together and bring it in before the warranty expires.

I am sure they are doing it for their own benefit but it is a good business practice IMO.
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