Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Class A Motorhome Discussions
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-05-2015, 09:48 AM   #43
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,493
The dealer is following up with you as they want your buisiness.

They also bill the manufacturer for the work so win win.

Do take advantage due to the dealer wanting the work...

Inspect your mh and create a list including the stupid silly stuff that alone are not wort the trouble if mentioning.

Pass it to the dealer and let them schedule it in and ask them to look for more as they go.

This is assuming dealer is good a servicing and not tip...

Technician Induced Problems...
__________________

__________________
Tony & Lori
1989 Country Coach Savannah SE
TQ60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-05-2015, 10:35 AM   #44
Senior Member
 
Smitty77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Over the next hill, around the next curve...
Posts: 3,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by pagosajoe View Post
I believe that's "Six Sigma". And yes, you're correct - that would help. A lot.
Over the last 10-15 years, both Six Sigma and Toyota Production Systems (Lean Manufacturing - Both were built upon the principals that Deming used to help rebuild the Japanese manufacturing post WWII, evolved for sure, but where it started.) Have moved heavily into the Aerospace industry. Coupled this by Corporate Leadership working closely with Union Leadership instead of battling with each other. (Not in all areas, but I've seen it time and time again, where using mutual trust and respect vs grievances - the transition has really helped. Mechanics, technicians, etc. - know the most on how to do things both the easiest (a human trait) as well as the best from a quality stand point. As more and more work was sent to other countries, the eyes opened and most Unions agreed to work with Corporations on 'How do we improve the product, lower the costs, and become the ideal place to source the work content?'. My first major Aerospace company, an early adopter of Lean Manufacturing, went from over 300 'Union Job Classifications' - down to just over 30. Amazing what the risk of losing your job will do to make you a believer that your company must make money, or their will be know jobs. (Sorry for the sidebar, but something I've repeatedly seen, and IMO, a sing of a better future of the US middle class.))

Having companies invest in robotics, good quality components, and training, training, training of their work forces. (We taught basic math, english to several hundred per year. So they could then be trained in more detail areas, old Blue Print reading, Tooling Jig & Die, etc.) Again IMO, this is what will set up the next large wave of improvement for 'Mass Produced' RV's. Costs should lower overall, demand should go up for their products, and ownership satisfaction thus should improve too. This takes leadership and vision beyond the next bonus or perk for the executives. Oh, one other thing I saw work well, was Gain Sharing (Bonus) based upon performance. When what you get at the end of the year is based upon how well your company, and your department within the company, and you within the department all perform together. Well, the $$ makes many skeptic 'rank & file' believers. And 'rank & file' are what make a company. Setting and building upon a proud culture, are mandatory for long term success of any company.

I also see shift of more 'modular' manufacturing of components, like the chassis/front cab, of some of the newer smaller Class A's, providing a future of what I hope will be 'Buyer Modular Option Choices' of differing sub components.

If you go back to what many of us here consider the glory days of RV's, we also had many companies that were privately owned. Were the pride of leadership was top down and became the culture of that company. Doing things the right way, with good quality components, will cost more then 'Slapping the lowest priced source components together. And then letting Warranty Repair at the Dealer take care of quality problems...).

Not too many privately owned RV builders still among us...

And yes, us consumer's want more for less - but then lean towards price more then the 'more'.

I've again become long winded. As one person pointed out. "We keep buying...". Stop buying crap, they'll stop building it...

Best to all, have fun, be safe,
Smitty
__________________

__________________
Roo II is our 04 Country Coach Allure 40'
OnDRoad for The JRNY! Enjoy life...
Smitty77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 10:51 AM   #45
Senior Member
 
rodz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 710
One more thing I can add to my gripe list. I thought might be a one time occurrence. Every time we return from a trip there's wood chips and saw dust on the floor that's coming out from under the walls and cabinets. Not just a few specks but lots. You would think they would clean up there mess. The first trip when I put out the slide I discovered the flooring was scratched where the rollers were sitting. I looked under it and there was wood chips, pieces of electrical wiring and screws all over. Garbage was stuck to the rollers and scratching the floor. The things that keep popping up are all things that could easily have been prevented.
__________________
2009 Ventana 3933
rodz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 10:58 AM   #46
Senior Member
 
Gordon Dewald's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 10,167
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodz View Post
One more thing I can add to my gripe list. I thought might be a one time occurrence. Every time we return from a trip there's wood chips and saw dust on the floor that's coming out from under the walls and cabinets. Not just a few specks but lots. You would think they would clean up there mess. The first trip when I put out the slide I discovered the flooring was scratched where the rollers were sitting. I looked under it and there was wood chips, pieces of electrical wiring and screws all over. Garbage was stuck to the rollers and scratching the floor. The things that keep popping up are all things that could easily have been prevented.
Geez Rod. Your coach sounds like our house. Did a renovation a couple years ago. Found the walls full of sawdust, nails, wiring ends, etc. Under a set of steps in the family room found shingles, dirt, etc.

Some of the debris looked like it had been swept there. It was built in 76. Guess those guys have gone on to build motorhomes.

Fortunately for us the slides were among the first thing we checked. Due mostly to reading this forum. Thankfully they were clear.
__________________
Gordon and Janet
Tour 42QD/inTech Stacker
Gordon Dewald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 03:41 PM   #47
Senior Member
 
gasser 38's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 374
American Consumers are Fickle if the quality bar is raised one of 2 things has to happen Price goes up or Toy count goes down. This means 1TV instead of 5
2 slides instead of 4 1 b/w back up camera instead of 3 color and the list goes on. They are all trying to compete in the same market and as always the one with the most toys wins! There have been plenty of manufactures trying to build quality and compete most of them are gone or now owned by someone else.
The percentage of buyers that come to a forum such as this before they purchase is minute compared to market size.
__________________
gasser 38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 04:05 PM   #48
Senior Member
 
rodz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by gasser 38 View Post
American Consumers are Fickle if the quality bar is raised one of 2 things has to happen Price goes up or Toy count goes down. This means 1TV instead of 5
2 slides instead of 4 1 b/w back up camera instead of 3 color and the list goes on. They are all trying to compete in the same market and as always the one with the most toys wins! There have been plenty of manufactures trying to build quality and compete most of them are gone or now owned by someone else.
The percentage of buyers that come to a forum such as this before they purchase is minute compared to market size.
Most of what I'm seeing is from sloppy careless employees.
__________________
2009 Ventana 3933
rodz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 05:27 PM   #49
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 305
There is nothing wrong with manufacturers......the problem is people who buy junk and then make excuses for it
__________________
MotorPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 06:04 PM   #50
Senior Member
 
rodz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorPro View Post
There is nothing wrong with manufacturers......the problem is people who buy junk and then make excuses for it
Please explain.
__________________
2009 Ventana 3933
rodz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2015, 08:06 PM   #51
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,493
Worked for Motorola when six sigma was created.

It was drive for I defect per million.

Great attention to detail and results were good.

Somehow the Mostar stayed in production but that is another story...

The competetion was off shore stuff that was and still is garbage but it was cheap.

Folks purchased Motorola because it had a reputation and was backed by folks who knew what they were doing.

Manufacturer would need to have service providers and dealers who also have high standards to properly back their product as well as improving general processes to insure built as designed and not thrown together with junk left in as some observed.
__________________
Tony & Lori
1989 Country Coach Savannah SE
TQ60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2015, 10:23 AM   #52
Registered User
 
Racklefratz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodz View Post
Most of what I'm seeing is from sloppy careless employees.
It's all that "Amish craftmanship".

I read all about "German engineering" too. We bought a BMW 325is years ago based on that claim. Never had as many problems with a car as that one, dealers were never able to correct the electrical and other issues.

Your comments are disturbing. I was admiring Canyon Stars, based on positive comments here and elsewhere. Now, I'm wondering.
__________________
Racklefratz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2015, 12:26 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
gasser 38's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodz View Post
Most of what I'm seeing is from sloppy careless employees.
Time is money the faster they go the worse it gets
__________________
gasser 38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2015, 12:35 PM   #54
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodz View Post
Please explain.

People pay hundreds of thousands on a new rv. Then you they have all kinds of problems. Then rather then admit to them selves and other that they got ripped off they come on here and say things like "you have to expect problems because these are complicated systems" (rv systems are very basic,nothing complicated) or "In order to improve quality the prices would have to way up" (possibly the most ubserd statement I have ever heard). With the customers who got ripped off defending the fact that they bought junk where is the incentive for the manufacturer to build a better product? The part that cracks me up is that after several years of running back and forth to the dealers and the manufacturer getting everything finally fixed they will trade them in,give the same manufacturers more money and start the process over again.
__________________
MotorPro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2015, 12:45 PM   #55
Senior Member
 
Gordon Dewald's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 10,167
IMO it all has to do with marketing and the expectations we place upon society.

First everyone in school gets a ribbon if they show up. NO ONE is failed because it would hurt their self esteem. They are talking now about changing math so it is not important to give the right answer just the right method. So we are teaching our children that we do not have high expectations.

Then we get to the workplace where we have to show respect. You cannot call out a marginal employee but you have to give them some slack.

Then marketing and the bean counters figure out exactly what they can produce and get away with. All kinds of marketing studies to determine the optimal name to call the unit to get the best reaction from the buyers. And to make them want more.

I really wonder how stupid they think we are when an advertising campaign lists a new improved box as a reason to buy. Even though the box is likely smaller!!!

Barnum was right. There is one born every minute.

Stupidity is defined as "Repeating the same action over and over hoping for a different outcome".
__________________
Gordon and Janet
Tour 42QD/inTech Stacker
Gordon Dewald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2015, 06:05 PM   #56
Senior Member
 
rodz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post
IMO it all has to do with marketing and the expectations we place upon society.

First everyone in school gets a ribbon if they show up. NO ONE is failed because it would hurt their self esteem. They are talking now about changing math so it is not important to give the right answer just the right method. So we are teaching our children that we do not have high expectations.

Then we get to the workplace where we have to show respect. You cannot call out a marginal employee but you have to give them some slack.

Then marketing and the bean counters figure out exactly what they can produce and get away with. All kinds of marketing studies to determine the optimal name to call the unit to get the best reaction from the buyers. And to make them want more.

I really wonder how stupid they think we are when an advertising campaign lists a new improved box as a reason to buy. Even though the box is likely smaller!!!

Barnum was right. There is one born every minute.

Stupidity is defined as "Repeating the same action over and over hoping for a different outcome".
That sums it up quite well. There's no testing of anything. They come up with an idea and it goes right to production. They should do prototypes like every other kind of manufacturing. If they would do that and have a few engineers drive it for a few thousand miles, they would know that some of those lame ideas just won't work.
__________________

__________________
2009 Ventana 3933
rodz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wrong option on new Dutch Star wagonmaster2 Newmar Owner's Forum 51 05-04-2015 11:09 AM
Where am I going wrong .....?? barclay7568 Country Coach Owners Forum 17 12-30-2014 09:00 PM
Would it be wrong? oakcreekeric Just Conversation 36 08-08-2014 12:53 AM
I think this is wrong mike.t Travel Trailer Discussion 10 07-31-2014 08:49 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.