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Old 05-06-2015, 07:23 PM   #57
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If they would do that and have a few engineers drive it for a few thousand miles, they would know that some of those lame ideas just won't work.
Yes. But even with the ideas that DO work, nothing justifies the sloppy workmanship, the sleaziest, el cheapo plastic components they can dredge up, the leftover sawdust, screws, and other construction debris, scattered around where nobody's supposed to see them.

There's another discussion here about a high-dollar Newmar that leaked 50 gallons of water all over inside the coach, just 4 days off the factory lot - abysmal quality control or design, whatever the case, and totally unacceptable. If the RV industry has distinguished itself, it's with shoddy workmanship, the cheapest components money can buy, and often, a take-it-or-leave-it attitude. I find it deplorable, especially considering the out-of-pocket costs involved.
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Old 05-07-2015, 09:32 AM   #58
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The RV industry is in it to make a profit. They use components that get the job done and price it to be in a certain price range to be competitive. If a buyer wants better quality than the mass produced rv, he needs to save his pennies and get the check book out and step up to a custom made coach that he gets to chose what components to use and then pay the much higher labor cost to build it. I picked a competent dealer that did a great PDI and corrected little things before he let us have it. I wanted special changes to suit my preference and Tiffin took care of the bill. In two years we have had to replace the Summit cook top. Everything fits properly and works as it should. We fill it with fuel and water and hit the road. Couldn't be happier with a coach costing two to three times as much. It is the best overall motorhome we have had since our first one 20 years ago. Would I change a few things??? Sure, but I didn't buy a custom made coach so we are happy with the extra money in the bank. Travel safe.
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Old 05-07-2015, 09:56 AM   #59
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sawdust and loose screws

We've wanted a RV for about five years now. We've had to struggle with the emotion of wanting something versus not buying because of the crap that is available. Every, EVERY, new RV we've looked at has had quality issues. So far we've decided not to endorse crappy production by buying one. Every dealer says they are there to fix the problems that occur during transit from factory to their showroom. Well, if that much crap happens during delivery then what will happen when we put another thousand miles on the RV?

We want one so bad, but can't get over the hurdle of paying top dollar for poor workmanship and design.
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Old 05-07-2015, 11:10 AM   #60
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Well, if that much crap happens during delivery then what will happen when we put another thousand miles on the RV? We want one so bad, but can't get over the hurdle of paying top dollar for poor workmanship and design.
We've been RVing over 20 years and 3 RVs, a Class A gasser, a 40' diesel pusher, and a 39' 5th wheel. So we're not the most experienced owners here, but the answer to your question is, "It depends". "You pays your money, and you takes your chances."

Sometimes you get lucky, and the RV you buy is golden from day one, requiring only routine maintenance. "Crasher" who posted above, is one of those. But the more common scenario, as this discussion demonstrates, will be that the issues you'll face with your new RV will make you question your sanity. It's a crap-shoot. And to complicate things, there are also the variables in factory support and dealer support/competency to deal with whatever arises. So buying an RV is not an exercise for the faint of heart.

As it turns out, we too are in the process of making the decision of whether to buy an RV or not. If we did, it would have to be a production unit, and I really don't know if I'm prepared to face the uncertainties. The maufacturers are selling everything they build, so there's no incentive for them to do anything differently, unfortunately.
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Old 05-07-2015, 11:14 AM   #61
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This is all too weird! We have had zero quality problems with our Winnie Adventurer in the two plus years we have owned it. Only issues have been small ones involving components.
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Old 05-07-2015, 11:58 AM   #62
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This is all too weird! We have had zero quality problems with our Winnie Adventurer in the two plus years we have owned it. Only issues have been small ones involving components.
My Winnebago Journey was by far the best MH I've ever owned or driven. Their design and engineering is well planned and thought out.
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Old 05-07-2015, 03:25 PM   #63
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Yes. But even with the ideas that DO work, nothing justifies the sloppy workmanship, the sleaziest, el cheapo plastic components they can dredge up, the leftover sawdust, screws, and other construction debris, scattered around where nobody's supposed to see them.

There's another discussion here about a high-dollar Newmar that leaked 50 gallons of water all over inside the coach, just 4 days off the factory lot - abysmal quality control or design, whatever the case, and totally unacceptable. If the RV industry has distinguished itself, it's with shoddy workmanship, the cheapest components money can buy, and often, a take-it-or-leave-it attitude. I find it deplorable, especially considering the out-of-pocket costs involved.
The Newmar in actuality pumped about 50 gallons of water through a fitting that failed. It is being determined whether the fitting failed or was incorrectly installed. Some debate on whether the system was pressure tested or if the pump being left on while the unit was driven is an issue.

Makes me wonder. I am currently in the process of upgrading the taps and toilets in our house. I have found that many of the little shut off valves will leak after being turned off to replace the unit it is attached to. Each valve has been opened or closed less than a dozen times during it's lifetime yet I have had to replace 4 so far.
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Old 05-07-2015, 05:01 PM   #64
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Geesh O Pete.........

And with all due respect to those of you with many years of RVing behind you. I'm going to get the cheese, to go with now 10 pages of w(h)ine between this and the other quality thread from a week or two ago, and we can have have a wake for the dead horse. What is the point at this point for this to go on?

Yes, a newbie here, but have been very active on several car enthusiasts boards over the years, and this issue, real, perceived, and overblown takes the cake.

Is my new Tiffin perfect, no, but so far nothing that takes away the enjoyment of the coach. We decided to step up a bit from the "very entry level" class As, and paid more accordingly, but also realize we were not getting a custom coach.

I've fixed a few things myself, and a couple other things that I'll get around to sooner or later. A few things could be better that are just going to be the way they are, but given the price point and REASONABLE expectations based on the houses we have built in the last 20 years, and the cars we have owned, and what we have dealt with each, from the builders, dealers etc., we are happy and ready to head out on our next adventure shortly (isn't that the real point of having an RV?).

And yes, I have had "bad cars" too, and I do feel for those that really have significant problems with thier RVs. So, yes, I get it that there are lemons out there, but they are generally exceptions, but with forums, these exceptions can get blown way out of scope and become legend (and, who knows how many problems are really owner enduced, which I know from getting behind the real story of some car owner forum "issues" happens more than you think).

And yes, was the house I grew up in that was built in 1964 better built than most today, certainly it was. Was the custom home I built 20 years ago better than the house we had that was "semi custom" 5 years later, absolutely (such as we had a feed line on a toilet break because it was over tightened and failed a few years after we bought it, but happened to catch it before the damage was too bad) and it will be it interesting to see how our new condo will be built and I have my expectations in check.

But as with cars and RVs, homes have gotten bigger and fancier, but to sell them there is a price point in the market that drives the product. As I said on the other quality post, just try to build a custom 2000-2500 sq ft home in the burbs in most major markets; not going to happen anymore (Unless it is a $2-5M over the top home in some over priced market) I'd be happy to pay the same as the bigger home, but no one wants to build it, and you'd never sell it (because the realtors wouldn't try to).

And very much in line with "they don't make me like they used to", old Porsche owners will go on and on how the newer cars are just not built they way they were before 1999. No, they are not hand built anymore, but they are a lot more reliable, comfortable, and can be driven everyday, not to mention superior performance...... Cheaper in some ways, yes, but overall the new cars fit the needs of more people who can look at them in the garage, take them to the track, or drive them to work every day. BMWs, Ferraris, the same story.

If you want a perfect house, car, or RV, you are going to have to pay big time to get craftsman level work (with all due respect, most of the people on production lines, or building homes these days are not true craftsman, nor are they paid as such), simple as that. And you are still going to have problems. If you want to nit pick you'll be miserable, and when you take that attitude / expectation to the dealer / builder you are going to drive yourself and them nuts.

Rant over.
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Old 05-07-2015, 07:45 PM   #65
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Old 05-07-2015, 11:32 PM   #66
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Agreed!
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Old 05-08-2015, 10:35 AM   #67
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Betr2Trvl - well said.
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Old 05-08-2015, 11:01 AM   #68
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I'm not complaining about craftsmanship. I know they don't use the best materials. That's not the complaint. I think the craftsmanship in my cabinets and other components are acceptable. It's when all those components go to the line for installation that poor workmanship shows up. I've had so many things wrong that I didn't even mention. Another example is a basement door. I struggled to get it open. When I tried to close it, the latch was so far out of adjustment there was no way it would close. The latch screws were tight. Someone on the line went to a lot of trouble getting it closed being that far off. The rear door over the rear holding tank hits the drain cap. I have to lift and actually spring the door to clear and close it. These things had to have been deliberate.
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Old 05-08-2015, 11:35 AM   #69
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Unfortunately the economy drives this, what price will the market support. Does it come down to profit versus quality? Yes. I too looked at new coaches at a recent show and came to the same conclusion as others who have posted regarding poor build quality. I noticed scuffing on the floor of a new unit where the slide had rubbed, pointed this out to the salesman, he said something must of got caught between the slide.....really. Plus he was trying push me into a gasser from my current DP again.....really. Lots of nice goodies in the new coaches but, they appear to have gone all electric which I pointed out as I go dry camping. His answer to this was people who buy these coaches use full hook ups.......hmmmm, time to leave. At this point I shall stick with my older coach and remodel it as I see fit to suit our needs.


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Old 05-08-2015, 06:46 PM   #70
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We had decided to look at diesel pushers about a year ago. It got to the point where they all looked alike.

Someone told me about Entegra so I toured the factory and talked to several owners. We've only had it for 2 weeks now but we couldn't be happier. The impressive part has been the customer service. I received a phone call from the lady in charge of the customer service and gave me her personal cell phone number. I was told to call 24/7 if I have any problems at all. I couldn't believe it.
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