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Old 10-17-2015, 01:28 PM   #99
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We bought a '98 American Tradition 40' two weeks ago for 1/10th of your $300k price point. I can say that our coach is so much more well made than anything at $200k. The quality of workmanship that American Coach put into our unit 17 year and 110k miles ago compared to what you get now astounds me. I'm happy that I had only $30k to spend on a coach and bought what I did because as far as I'm concerned, new coaches don't impress me.
That's what we keep finding. We too are looking at a 1998 American Tradition that also is 1/10th the 300K price point. After looking at several dozen new MH at the California RV show last weekend, we were NOT impressed with very many at all. I don't need 4 TV's and fake fireplace and all of the bling. Just give us a very solidly built coach with a rock solid chassis - I'll fix what's broken and enjoy the savings.

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Old 10-17-2015, 01:38 PM   #100
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It's a double-edged sword. Things may have been manufactured to higher standards years ago, but age takes its toll on everything. The transmission computer on our 15 year-old Beaver failed and left us stranded, and it took Stewart and Stevenson 3 days, which we spent in their parking lot, to find one. That's the risk one takes trying to extend the useful life of an aging RV.
Heck I had a 3 inch fuel injector line crack on my 6 year old Dodge Cummins in the middle of (almost) nowhere (100+ mile tow) and it took 3 days to get the part and another day to fix. 4 days stranded in east bum.... with no vehicle no nothing. Part of the adventure -- things don't always go as you planned them to. Smile, deal with it and move on to the next adventure
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Old 10-17-2015, 01:53 PM   #101
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Why would they not go up on the price every year?Every year there having recorded sales,there selling them faster than they can make them.

It all goes down to as long as we keep buying,there going to keep going up.

Who ever thought we would see pickups cost over $50,000.00
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Old 10-17-2015, 02:01 PM   #102
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One of the main reasons for this is inflation which is something the public seems to never consider. Not trying to be political here, but it's a fact of life that when the government continues to print money like there's no tomorrow, the value of the dollar falls. My 2005 Country Coach Allure had a sticker price of $436000.00 when new. That translates into $538000.00 in today's dollar. I don't think Country Coach could sell that same coach today at that price. Another reason is the costlier emissions regulations, especially in the DP market. Most manufacturers are cutting corners and quality to reach their target market. $250k to 300k is now the mid range market. Of course the high end manufacturers are still producing the rolling palaces, the folks who buy those coaches can afford to pay more. We chose to buy a nine year old, higher end coach rather than to buy a new one. One reason was for the difference in materials quality. The other was depreciation. Even after buying a warranty, new tires, new TV's, new roller shades, wood flooring, new shocks and complete chassis and drivetrain service, I'm still at less than 70% of new price, which is less than the cost of a new high end gas coach.
Yep, one of the reasons we traded the really great '02 DSDP for the Magna, better bones and cost us less than a new DSDP 4375 would have. But, yes there have been and still are repairs and upgrades. But we're still into it less than 50% of it's original $750,000 cost.
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Old 10-17-2015, 02:17 PM   #103
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DW and I spent 2 days at the Tampa RV show. We looked in everything until our ankles and legs hurt. We were looking to replace our 2008 with about 1 full year of living use with a new unit. The 2008 had plastic and fiberboard but started out nice. After a living year every little thing was in need of repair. As an old engineer I will repair most everything but engines. So we decided to purchase a new $300K+ unit. Junk, more junk, lousy workmanship, no leg room, slide-outs that kept you from getting to the bath when traveling - on and on. So we decided to just not bother. A few months later we ran into a used 2004 Country Coach (24,000) that was beautiful inside and out. Great workmanship etc. I told DW she could spent anything she wanted on it and it would still be less than 1/2 of what we were going to spend. Two years and 50,000 mile later we were right - in this case older was so much better.
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Old 10-17-2015, 02:40 PM   #104
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That's what we keep finding. We too are looking at a 1998 American Tradition that also is 1/10th the 300K price point. After looking at several dozen new MH at the California RV show last weekend, we were NOT impressed with very many at all. I don't need 4 TV's and fake fireplace and all of the bling. Just give us a very solidly built coach with a rock solid chassis - I'll fix what's broken and enjoy the savings.

Dan

98 American Coaches are well built, very user friendly with excellent fit/finish.

We have really enjoyed our vintage Eagle for the last 6 1/2 years. Never had anything fail until our 10 day trip a few weeks back. Allison shift pad had to be replaced.
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Old 10-17-2015, 05:02 PM   #105
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Bought our coach in nov 2012,I have been diligently fixing some 68 items since then. Started on actual upgrades this year. I can honestly say if I had to take the unit in to the dealer or factory to have work done,I would have sold it in 2013.Consider myself fortunate that I can repair most things myself,keeps me quite busy,I might add. Finally got rid of the bitter taste that poor quality left in my mouth, had a nice uneventful year,knock on wood, starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I CAN SAY WITHOUT RESERVATION that if anyone checks the vintage rv section of this forum in 2040 I will probably be posting there about my unit "IF I'm still around" because I WILL NOT give any more of my hard earned money to an industry that treats It's customers the way they do now.We have grown to love the lifestyle,thus will continue to enjoy the unit till it won't or we can't go any more.Oh, and I spent 4 hours with an air hose, 150 psi blowing out debris from under the slides,then vac till my back hurt,now don't find any wood chips/metal chips anywhere,even after long trips. IT should not matter weather someone spends 100,000 or 800,000 on a new motorhome the factory workers should care enough to clean up after themselves,and if they don't, the coach builder should care enough and can them and get someone who will, that goes for QC also.There is a lot of people out there looking for a GOOD job, that would be happy to clean up after themselves.

Ok, my bp is up, rant over
have a good nite everyone
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Old 10-18-2015, 08:09 PM   #106
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Why would they not go up on the price every year?Every year there having recorded sales,there selling them faster than they can make them.

It all goes down to as long as we keep buying,there going to keep going up.

Who ever thought we would see pickups cost over $50,000.00
There are so many factors that make prices go up that it isn't just demand. There are plenty of manufacturers to choose from, but the prices will continue to rise due to costs rising. Anyone in business will tell you that it costs us more and more to be in business every year. Health insurance, unemployment insurance, regulation compliance, software costs, and the list goes on and on. Demand is there but so is the competition.

If you are happy with what you can find in a 20 year old coach, that's great. It means there is a market for older coaches. One fault I do see is that comparisons are consistently made with MSRP. I know of no one in their right mind who pays MSRP. Comparisons with actual discounted prices would be a lot more realistic.
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Old 10-18-2015, 08:22 PM   #107
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If you are happy with what you can find in a 20 year old coach, that's great. It means there is a market for older coaches. One fault I do see is that comparisons are consistently made with MSRP. I know of no one in their right mind who pays MSRP. Comparisons with actual discounted prices would be a lot more realistic.
That would be great IF every manufacturer gave the same discount, then we could compare apples to oranges rather than oranges to pears.
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Old 10-19-2015, 10:31 AM   #108
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That would be great IF every manufacturer gave the same discount, then we could compare apples to oranges rather than oranges to pears.
That is what marketing is all about. Set a price that is not too high to scare off customers but high enough so you can give them a substantial "discount".

I recall several years ago (long time) that Saturn has a strategy of the price was the price. No discounts, just pay the sticker price as it was as low as they would go. Not sure how it worked for them but don't think it was successful.

I suspect that most of the manufacturers pay about the same wages and benefits, and their overhead costs are similar. Established manufacturers may have lower or no finance charges. Just a matter of the profit they want to make per unit. Small producers will likely try to get a larger profit per unit. Volume has its privileges.

Janet and I were talking this morning. She is unhappy with her Vista computer. It has done its work and is time to upgrade to a new one. Therein lies the problem. Windows 8 was a bust and now we are looking at Windows 10. Seems like there is issues with it as well. Then it hit me. When have we ever had a Windows release that has been fully tested and is ready to go. NEVER! We the customers are the beta+ and acceptance testing focus group. Microsoft rushes through the development and gives us a product that required an update every couple weeks. They reduced the update frequency to make it seem less of an issue.

Other manufacturers would have to be stupid not to observe the business model that made Microsoft successful and emulate them in some form. Including MH manufacturers.

Anyway - I digress and am done with the rant.
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Old 10-19-2015, 10:38 AM   #109
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Mr. D you are correct that the discounts are all over the board. I've seen some as low as 20% and some as high as 40%. The clarification for me is that if I'm buying a used coach that I paid $30,000 for and even though it listed at $300,000 new, I could have bought it for $180,000 then to say I paid 10% of what it would have cost new is not correct. One of the big arguments for buying used is to avoid the huge hit in up front depreciation. Yes there is a large up front cost of ownership, but it's much different looking at real cost versus MSRP.

My experience in buying used was not a good one when our used coach lost its brakes on I-75 in Georgia. That has more than slightly soured me on buying used. I'm glad that there are plenty of folks that have had good luck buying used. I'm not mechanically inclined enough to be able to fix things that break so I have to rely on warranties.

Many of the contentions in this thread I would have to agree with. Do you really need four TV's or more in a coach? No, I don't think so. There are many other levels of bling on a lot of the new coaches that are just over the top, but there are also improvements in safety and comfort. Those are worth a premium to me to know that my passengers and me are safe and comfortable.
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Old 10-20-2015, 01:14 AM   #110
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to wnytaxman. I agree with you , and totally also understand their points too and have done BOTH myself. I have bought both new and used campers and trailers. We bought a new Winnebago motorhome last year and had a few issues that we were very happy to have covered by the warranty. I DID save quite a bit of money when I bought used and fixed most everything myself. After long consideration we decided to buy a new motorhome for a lot of the same reasons you talked about, safety etc but also because we both still work and we have about 5 years to go to retire. We looked at some nice 5 to 10 year old rigs that were a good price but when we thought about it when we retired it would be closer to 10 to 15 yrs old, and then who knows how much stuff would need replacing? Tires, brakes, hoses, generator, and we didn't want to deal with that when we want to take off and GO! I honestly think though that probably the biggest reason for buying new was that I am kind of a perfectionist and didn't want to trust someone elses maintenance records and care of the coach. I have had it less than a year and have put 4 coats of a great wax on it already. We ONLY wash it with de-ionized distilled water. (made my own pressure washer!) Im sure you know what I mean..With something this big I want to make sure its safe and lasts. I never dreamed we would ever have something so nice. And by the way we were having a hard time deciding between the Berkshire and Winnebago. Bhs are VERY nice coaches, how do you like yours? Safe Roads, Dave and Cindy
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Old 10-20-2015, 01:26 AM   #111
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My experience in buying used was not a good one when our used coach lost its brakes on I-75 in Georgia. That has more than slightly soured me on buying used. I'm glad that there are plenty of folks that have had good luck buying used. I'm not mechanically inclined enough to be able to fix things that break so I have to rely on warranties.
Many of the contentions in this thread I would have to agree with. Do you really need four TV's or more in a coach? No, I don't think so. There are many other levels of bling on a lot of the new coaches that are just over the top, but there are also improvements in safety and comfort. Those are worth a premium to me to know that my passengers and me are safe and comfortable.
I am mechanically minded but having the ISX blow up after 2,600 miles of purchase is not one of my skills!. And Cummins knows they screwed up but still no recall nor full payment of the repair cost. We did get $10,400 off the over $33,000 bill though but still this is the second time it's blown and on the third turbo in 45,000 miles. Cummins claims the new head, valves and turbo have cured the "problem" but I'm still holding my breath!
We have three TV's in ours but have not yet used the mid 42" TV much either. It just seems out of place and don't feel the need for one outside either.
As to the safety, well I felt pretty safe in the previous Dutch Star but I feel even safer in the Magna with it's all steel upper framework and very strong chassis. This thing seems like a tank in comparison to the much lighter DSDP.
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Old 10-20-2015, 05:12 AM   #112
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Unfortunately everyone wants to get the "DEAL". They want to get high quality for a low price. If they sell they want a big price for their used item.

It is just human nature. We all want something for nothing or very little.

Talk as you want about cars and how quality has improved. Yes the Japanese invaded the market with good cars at a lower price point. At that time labour in Japan was cheap. Trade barriers were put in place to protect the market so the Japanese had to move some of their manufacturing on shore. So the price went up on their cars allowing the big 3 to be competitive. Now we can purchase a quality car whether it be Japanese, European or American but it is not cheap.

It makes me wonder when we speak about a 60 - 75 k half ton and we think we are getting a bargain. Extrapolate that to a motor home and what should we be paying in real dollars? Probably something close to the MSRP. If manufacturers were actually producing something worth near what they say it is there would be very few dealers able to discount 25 - 30% if indeed there were any.

So you have a MSRP at 300,000, they sell it for 200,000 and the manufacturer probably only puts in 100 - 125,000. That is where your quality fall short.
Probably the most accurate statement I have read on this site. Careful what you wish for folks. I believe the manufacturers have hit on a fairly good mix of quality and price. There would be a few of us that would need to find a different hobby or lifestyle should processes and price change. quality exists, you have to look for it (and pay for it). How many families with trailers can afford an airstream? You with the dutchstar! How would you like to stroke the check for that Newell or Liberty coach? Cant do it? Maybe you should move down to that 160k Roadtrek. Quality is available. All four of the manufacturers mentioned provide it but at a price.
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