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Old 01-01-2014, 10:02 AM   #29
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I a coach that large you will probably be running the genny to keep the coach cool in the summer and if equiped, Aqua Hot in the Spring/Fall for heat (via Genny or Diesel). Either way, there is another item consuming fuel. I have a 42'8" with an ISL 400. I don't count mileage, just estimate when it would be convienent to re-fuel (MH access and cost). My Genny will shut off above 1/4 tank if the road is not level or has tight curves. I understand the concept of not allowing the Genny to run the tank dry, but 1/4 tank...of a 130Gal tank?

I've owned the MH for just 13 months and most of our use has been local, 3-day/4-day weekends due to job requirements. 2,786 miles and $1,638 for fuel.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:03 AM   #30
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Johnny Rottten, All good points. thank you. R U saying that diesel engines 2008 and older get better mpg than 2009 and newer because of federal emission regulations? Would you say a 600hp would get worse mpg that a 500hp going same speed in same conditions?
In my opinion, the EPA regs that impacted MPG started in '04. Many engines started using EGR at that time and Milage went down. The particulate filter in '07 engines did nothing to MPG. Then '10 regs moved some emissions gear outside the engine and Milage picked up some if you don't count the DEF.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:09 AM   #31
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Since you are looking used you will have more engine variables than current new production. The Cummins ISX in 12 liter and 15 liter form make up most of new coach power in 45' size. Next is the ubiquitous ISL in 450 hp form.

If you go back to pre '10 coaches you will find Cummins, Cat and Detroit Diesel power. Look for a coach with less than 100 pounds of vehicle weight per HP. You will not find any 45' coach weighing over 40k that will give substantially greater Milage than another. Speed and topography are the big issues. Do your homework, buy the highest quality coach you can and learn how to drive it. Invest in a Silverleaf product and learn the characteristics of your power train. Knowledge is power.
Steve,
please describe what a silverleaf product is
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:10 AM   #32
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What is ISM ISX DD60?
Those are specific engines. The ISM and ISX are Cummins. The ISM was discontinued at the end of '09 and was 11 liter of 500 hp. The ISX is Cummins current heavy hauler of 15 liters and up to 650 hp. The ISX is also offered in a 12 liter version at 500 hp. The DD60 is Detroit Diesel series 60 which was in some coaches and was usually offered in 500-525 hp.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:11 AM   #33
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Steve, please describe what a silverleaf product is
http://www.silverleafelectronics.com/
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Old 01-01-2014, 01:43 PM   #34
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Johnny Rottten,

All good points. thank you. R U saying that diesel engines 2008 and older get better mpg than 2009 and newer because of federal emission regulations? Would you say a 600hp would get worse mpg that a 500hp going same speed in same conditions?
My understanding is 2008-2009 Emissions adversely affected mpg, 2010 I believe is when the DEF fluid started, mileage improved slightly but you must factor in cost for DEF.

From looking at Cummins web site same year motor 500 vs 600 on identical coach's the 500 will do a little better on mileage.

I really encourage you to figure out the set up that best suits your needs and forget about the fuel costs unless you are going to put way more miles on than average. I had a mental factor going from my '99 350 hp Cummins to '09 425 hp Cummins, but when you sit down and figure the real $ difference in a year, it is minimal costs compared to other costs associated with the coach. Good luck and let us know what you decide.
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Old 01-01-2014, 04:14 PM   #35
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We have a 2014 Itasca Ellipse 42QD, Cummins ISL 8.9L 450hp, 59,600 GCWR. With our toad our total weight is estimated at 50,000 lbs, and we cruise between 65-67 mph. We have been running east coast for awhile, so no mountain driving as of yet, and typically had been getting an average of 6.5 mpg. I started using a fuel additive from http://www.saveonfuel.info and over the last two thousand miles getting an increase in average mileage, now getting 7.2 mpg. I purchased the 16oz. bottles from Products for Diesel Fleets on their website, http://www.saveonfuel.info/ecommerce...for-fleets.jsp, which reduced the product cost per ounce to $.04. Overall, my net fuel costs have decreased even after the additive paid for itself, which is the whole point, a net savings to me of about $.25 per gallon of diesel. That said, we are running the AquaHot for heating and generator for cooling in dry camp, which is using diesel from the tank, so actual fuel costs includes engine, heating and cooling use. And, then there is the cost of DEF, which I have not calculated in my operational mpg costs. Make your own judgement, just my 2 cents.
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:07 PM   #36
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Forgive my nobness here, but I have to ask, does it matter that much? I mean you get the MH you can afford with the floor plan the DW wants, you load it up and go. While we all want the best fuel economy we can get, there are more variables that can impact your bottom line. Speed, winds, road condition and surface, MAINTENANCE, MAINTENANCE, MAINTENANCE, tires, toad and how you pack the weight in the inside.

The Fun Factor is why we "GET GOING' on the road and what points us. Mileage is important to me for one and only one reason. If it goes up or down much I either did something right (better quality fuel, tail wind...) or something is about to go out or needs MAINTENANCE. Past that, I don't like to think about fuel costs at all, because it is going to cost what it costs.

At one point in time, I once calculated the mpg all the time, then we got the houseboat, that thing cost us $3,000 per weekend so I started "metering" the fun to the point there was little fun left in the "fun" because it was all about number crunching.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:18 PM   #37
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I had a 2005 43' Newmar with an ISL 400 pulling a Honda CRV with cruise set at 62 and could get 8MPG all day long and on ocassion with conditions right have gotten close to 11 over a couple thousand miles. But all miles I had it and all fuel calculated I was at just over 8 for about 23K miles.

Now have an 07 45' Eagle with an ISM 500 and for the 5K miles I have had it I have avg just under 7 MPG running exact same speed and towing the exact same car. Alot of times over the exact same highways. Both coaches we run/ran the genny all day everyday while driving in the summer. Wiht that said the Newmar had an 8K gen, and the Eagle has a 10K, so not sure how much more fuel the 10K burns per hour over the 8K at the same load.

I never had an issue with the 400 being under powered, and I have not had an issue with the 500 being under powered. From everyone I have talked to it pretty much equals a 400 with an 8 MPG avg, and then subtract 1MPG per 100 HP. So 400=8, 500=7, 600=6.......UNLESS you are talking Prevost, Newell or something like those and then everyone I know gets 4.5-5.0 with their 600-650's.

I would worry MUCH more about the coach and floorplan you want than I would worrying about 400, 425, 450, 500, 525, 600, 650 HP. Everyone of those engines will run above the speed limit with little effort and if you are concerned about racing uphill, then you are in the wrong rig.

Whenever we travel I always just figure 7MPG for cost calculations. If I get more then great, if I get less then it is what it is.

Looking back, I wish I still had the 400 because of the less fuel consumption and never really needing the more power. But it is what it is and remember BIG HORSES EAT ALOT OF HAY.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:24 PM   #38
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I have a cummins 500 ISM. I also live in WV so no matter which direction I go I am pulling mountains. I to a tow a 3/4 Tom GMC 2500 Denali Diesel my total weight is over 50K. I have a heavy foot usually running 70-75 mph. In the mountains I usually just stand on it and and my average is about 3.5 on flat I usually average 6-7. As someone else said don't worry about the fuel it's about the journey! LOL. Good luck in your purchase.
You are not the only poster to run these speeds. I find it interesting. I imagine your tires are only rated for 65 mph and your tow bar is probably only rated for 65 miles per hour. I know there are several states that have laws how fast you can tow a trailer/vehicle. Are you not pushing the limits of what your equipment was designed to do.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:27 PM   #39
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Selah,
I will buy used. I am gathering info to help determine what is best for my needs. I do not want to strain going up hills and mountains, but I do not want a very low mpg in order to achieve that either. So, I will compromise on engine power needed and mpg needed. Still gathering info to make a decision. Hope this helps.
The issue going up mountains to me does not seem to be power but heat. I can get up mountains in the Rockies with no problem. I have to gear down in order to keep rpm's up so that my engine will not overheat. If my tiffin allegro bus with an ISL engine could handle the cooling issue I could cruise up most of the mountains I have been on at the 65mph I usually drive with no problems.
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:07 PM   #40
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I had a 2005 43' Newmar with an ISL 400 pulling a Honda CRV with cruise set at 62 and could get 8MPG all day long and on ocassion with conditions right have gotten close to 11 over a couple thousand miles. But all miles I had it and all fuel calculated I was at just over 8 for about 23K miles. Now have an 07 45' Eagle with an ISM 500 and for the 5K miles I have had it I have avg just under 7 MPG running exact same speed and towing the exact same car. Alot of times over the exact same highways. Both coaches we run/ran the genny all day everyday while driving in the summer. Wiht that said the Newmar had an 8K gen, and the Eagle has a 10K, so not sure how much more fuel the 10K burns per hour over the 8K at the same load. I never had an issue with the 400 being under powered, and I have not had an issue with the 500 being under powered. From everyone I have talked to it pretty much equals a 400 with an 8 MPG avg, and then subtract 1MPG per 100 HP. So 400=8, 500=7, 600=6.......UNLESS you are talking Prevost, Newell or something like those and then everyone I know gets 4.5-5.0 with their 600-650's. I would worry MUCH more about the coach and floorplan you want than I would worrying about 400, 425, 450, 500, 525, 600, 650 HP. Everyone of those engines will run above the speed limit with little effort and if you are concerned about racing uphill, then you are in the wrong rig. Whenever we travel I always just figure 7MPG for cost calculations. If I get more then great, if I get less then it is what it is. Looking back, I wish I still had the 400 because of the less fuel consumption and never really needing the more power. But it is what it is and remember BIG HORSES EAT ALOT OF HAY.
Hey Mrchips,

The Milage difference between the ISL and ISM has several causes other than the engine size. The major one is weight of the two coaches. I imagine the Eagle weighs substantially more than the Newmar. Also the ISM had to employ an EGR valve in the fuel system in '04 and later while the ISL did not have this Milage destroying device until '07. My '02 production ISM without the EGR and pushing about 44k pounds turns in about the same Milage as your Newmar with the ISL.
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:18 PM   #41
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pivotdoc,

what is your setup and weight please?
2006 Travel Supreme 42' w/tag, pulling 32' ATC race trailer weighing 9700#, total about 52k#.........when we go racing out here in the wild west, it's 500 mi. to anywhere hence the speeds........I-10 in W. Texas has 80 mph speed limit......! JB
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:24 PM   #42
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After talking to a lot of owners, the 450 Cummins seems to be the most common all around engine for most 43-45' MHs. I have found ours to be more than adequate pulling a 9500# trailer (49,950# total) in the mountains. I can pass many semi trucks going up to 11,000' west of Denver or slow down with them and take my time. Will a 500 or 600 or even a 1000 hp engine go faster, you bet they will. But what's the rush. RVing is supposed to be relaxing and taking time to smell the roses. (I had to say that cause we are just returning from the Rose parade. :-) I run 62 mph pulling that load on the interstate and let all the faster jockeys pass me. It's more relaxing and makes for an easy day. Sometimes I get 7-8 mpg and sometimes I get 6. It doesn't really matter as long as we are going somewhere.
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