Wheels off ground when using auto level jacks. What's the definitive consensus?

[StarBlocked]

I wanted to make a quick post to apologize. One of my kids became quite ill several days ago. Having this happen while traveling in a new RV has made it very difficult to keep up with all the kind help I've received in this thread.

I hope to read all the unread posts today or tomorrow. I just wanted to quickly thank everyone for the great discussion and apologize for not doing my part to keep up.

[Scarab0088]

Thoughts and prayers are yours for improved health and wellness for your little one.

[TeJay]

X's 2!!! Family comes first. Hope it all works out for you and your family.

[SlowJoe]

Originally Posted by twinboat

Even air suspensions dump the air out as soon as the chassis lifts, leaving only the axle weight on the ground.

The only traction you will get with the parking brakes, once the chassis is lifted even a few inches, is the traction of the weight of the axle and tires. Not enough to hold the RV from moving if it wanted to.

^This! If someone is looking for more stability, there is none to be had from the axle weight laying on the ground vs in the air. A rear axle with the tires is about 1200lbs. There is no meaningful braking or stabilization coming from the traction the tires would offer with no additional weight on them.

[Dav L]

Originally Posted by SlowJoe

^This! If someone is looking for more stability, there is none to be had from the axle weight laying on the ground vs in the air. A rear axle with the tires is about 1200lbs. There is no meaningful braking or stabilization coming from the traction the tires would offer with no additional weight on them.

I agree in principal but the tires do actually provide a fair amount of stiction to paved surfaces, even when the axle is unloaded. It doesn't take much friction to keep the RV from STARTING to slide. The tires IMHO do help.

But I think the whole "never raise the tires off the ground for 18 unfounded reasons" is a bit of an Old RV'rs tale. In general yes, but no where near the issue forums make of it.

No matter what, I try to ensure that the leveling legs are Level and I am not parked on significantly sloped surfaces. I get more creep due to the design of the rear suspension arms that mandate that the levelers move a bit forward / backwards on their boards when raising / lowering. BTW, that's a testament that the rear tires DO provide a good amount of friction when partially unloaded...

Would be interesting to have leveling blocks that were relatively lightweight to move, easily stackable / adjustable for height, didn't allow for sideways motion, allowed a little bit of forward/ backward motion that then becomes a positive stop, were not slippery surface to allow for movement either at the ground or at the leveling leg pad, were stiff enough to span some hollows in the ground without deflecting with 20K lbs of continual pressure, easy to clean, not super expensive, and don't require too much room to store. Sounds like a pretty tall order.
Then again, maybe we just need levelers that had more height with larger pad area...

[Kraken]

I always use blocking to save wear and tear on the motor. Less run time less wear. I use a 6 inch piece of 4x6, then some 2x4, followed on top with some 1x 6. I build it right up to the jack pads, so the system runs very little. That being said, there have been a couple times I still had the front wheels lift off the ground.

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by Dav L

I agree in principal but the tires do actually provide a fair amount of stiction to paved surfaces, even when the axle is unloaded. It doesn't take much friction to keep the RV from STARTING to slide. The tires IMHO do help.

But I think the whole "never raise the tires off the ground for 18 unfounded reasons" is a bit of an Old RV'rs tale. In general yes, but no where near the issue forums make of it.

No matter what, I try to ensure that the leveling legs are Level and I am not parked on significantly sloped surfaces. I get more creep due to the design of the rear suspension arms that mandate that the levelers move a bit forward / backwards on their boards when raising / lowering. BTW, that's a testament that the rear tires DO provide a good amount of friction when partially unloaded...

Would be interesting to have leveling blocks that were relatively lightweight to move, easily stackable / adjustable for height, didn't allow for sideways motion, allowed a little bit of forward/ backward motion that then becomes a positive stop, were not slippery surface to allow for movement either at the ground or at the leveling leg pad, were stiff enough to span some hollows in the ground without deflecting with 20K lbs of continual pressure, easy to clean, not super expensive, and don't require too much room to store. Sounds like a pretty tall order.
Then again, maybe we just need levelers that had more height with larger pad area...

I feel that it's more of a problem of slippery boards under the jacks.

A fix may be that once the jacks take some of the load, release the parking brake until leveled. Then re apply it.

That will cure the dragging of the jacks.

[Dav L]

Originally Posted by twinboat

I feel that it's more of a problem of slippery boards under the jacks.

A fix may be that once the jacks take some of the load, release the parking brake until leveled. Then re apply it.

That will cure the dragging of the jacks.

Agreed. It's just figuring out at what point during the lift, and before the suspension arms push the levelers forward, to release the spring brakes without the coach running away since it's typically on some type of slope (for drainage).

[6wheels]

Originally Posted by StarBlocked

I'm on my first big trip in my 2017 Thor Outlaw 37BG. I'm a stupid newb who isn't nearly as prepared as she thought she'd be, so it's been "fun."

One issue I keep encountering is campgrounds with extremely unlevel parking spots. I'm almost every single one, my auto-leveling hydraulics have had to lift the wheels off the ground.

A neighbor at one park said that's totally fine for one night, but that just doesn't feel right. The manual is silent on this issue (and countless others, but that's for another day). Online research shows mixed thoughts, but mostly seems to say it's a bad idea.

Is there any definitive answer? Does the make/model affect the decision?

It's a big deal, because one thing the manual does clearly say is that I can't extend the slide out without the RV leveled. It's been extremely uncomfortable making my whole brood cram in without the extra space from the slide out.

On a related note, is there any way to get the auto leveler to be more "efficient"? Here's what I mean. I've noticed that instead of making the minimum adjustments necessary to get the RV level, it just keeps going and going until it's way too high. For example, if my left side is too low, it will start by lifting the left side. Great! But then it lifts the right side, too? Then it keeps going back and forth until the whole thing is level, but way too high, and it could have been level several inches lower.

I've considered switching to manual, but it doesn't have a "bubble" for me to use, and I'd be uncomfortable eyeballing a hardware store level. Besides, I paid for an RV with auto level, and I'd really like to use it!

Thanks in advance for any and all help. I'm new to the RV world, and to this forum. I'm hoping I won't have to ask so many questions soon, but in the meantime I'm grateful for such a helpful bunch of people. Thanks!

Think about the extra weight you are suspending from the frame when the wheels lift off the ground. Are the "plungers" rated to support that weight? NO The OEM of your coach designed the leveling system to be used with the weight of the house, but most likely assumed you would leave the ground to support your suspension.
Please pick another site that is more level, or get some support under the wheels to avoid lifting the axles/wheels off the ground. That can be as much as 1200-1800 lbs.!

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by Dav L

Agreed. It's just figuring out at what point during the lift, and before the suspension arms push the levelers forward, to release the spring brakes without the coach running away since it's typically on some type of slope (for drainage).

I think if you plant the front jacks and just touch the rears, it should hold it enough to release the parking brake.

[Gordon Dewald]

My observation and the tech who did our walk through is the auto system will level the coach 4 - 6" higher than if done manually.

The tech recommended it be done manually.

For the majority of our leveling I prefer to do it manually and am convinced the results are better.

[Dav L]

Originally Posted by 6wheels

Think about the extra weight you are suspending from the frame when the wheels lift off the ground. Are the "plungers" rated to support that weight? NO The OEM of your coach designed the leveling system to be used with the weight of the house, but most likely assumed you would leave the ground to support your suspension.
Please pick another site that is more level, or get some support under the wheels to avoid lifting the axles/wheels off the ground. That can be as much as 1200-1800 lbs.!

Well, with the RVs I have looked at the specs, the leveling system is rated to exceed the TOTAL weight of the RV (including passengers and baggage). Think about it...if they failed, who do you think would be found at fault?
Look at your RV specs...what's the GVWR? and what are the model numbers of the leveling jacks? Usually not hard to look the specs up.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by Dav L

Well, with the RVs I have looked at the specs, the leveling system is rated to exceed the TOTAL weight of the RV (including passengers and baggage). Think about it...if they failed, who do you think would be found at fault?
Look at your RV specs...what's the GVWR? and what are the model numbers of the leveling jacks? Usually not hard to look the specs up.

I would not worry about lifting the total RV off of the ground with the stock OEM levelers on any unit.

My concern is the attach points. They are substantive enough under ideal conditions but there may be some conditions where they may be overwhelmed. Why take unnecessary chances if they can be reasonably avoided?

[alank]

Originally Posted by Dav L

Well, with the RVs I have looked at the specs, the leveling system is rated to exceed the TOTAL weight of the RV (including passengers and baggage). Think about it...if they failed, who do you think would be found at fault?
Look at your RV specs...what's the GVWR? and what are the model numbers of the leveling jacks? Usually not hard to look the specs up.

A few years ago I was curious about this question, so I took the weights of the coach I had then, a 2013, F53 with LCI levelers. I got a spec sheet of the jacks used by LCI so I could get the capacity of the jacks on my F53 chassis. The capacity of one single front jack was more than sufficient to lift the entire front axle weight of the coach. So, on that coach, the two jacks would be working at less than 50% of their rated capacity if the front tires were off the ground.