when is old too old ?

[Papa_Jim]

I have absolutely no problem talking about this without talking about money. It's easy, because money has absolutely nothing to do with why I will never own a new motorhome.

As is true for most of us, I have owned several vehicles over the years. I tried to rely on the manufacturers to provide me with good, reliable, safe transportation by supporting their dealer network and purchase their brand new vehicles. Never, never, ever again. I placed my trust in those people, and they betrayed that trust.

One vehicle manufacturer abused their relationship with me so badly that I made the proclamation that if that company ever expected me to purchase their product ever again, they will have to provide me with a brand new model, free of charge, with a no questions asked life time warranty.

I have had the pleasure of owning and enjoying some fine vehicles. Over the last 25 years, not one of them has been purchased brand new. That's the way it's going to continue.

In my mind, two things have to change before I will ever consider the purchase of a brand new vehicle.

One. The pricing policy has to change. I'm not interested in walking into a room full of sharks trying to see how big a bite they can cheat out of me. Not interested. To the manufacturer I say this: Post the vehicle price on your website, and pay your dealers their commission on the sale.

I don't want this issue confused. It's not about the money. It's about the idea that it's accepted good business practice to cheat me if I'm not clever enough to outsmart them. That's a really good way to start a strong healthy business relationship. The manufacturer wants me to support them and their dealers, but expects me to allow them to try to cheat me at our first contact.

Two. The manufacturer's warranty policy has to change. I'm not interested in driving off the manufacturer's dealer's lot to find out that I have been duped into becoming a guinea pig for the manufacturer. I will not sit at home waiting to find out if I'll ever get to use my 'new' vehicle while the dealer tries to figure out if the problem can ever be solved. To the manufacturer I say this: Step up to the plate and stand behind your product. If it's defective, take it back and give me another one or give me my money back. I'm sure that if you have to do that enough times, your quality will improve so you can avoid having to do that again.

So. To answer the OP's question. I don't care how old it is, if it's been properly maintained and it's what I want, I'll buy it. If it's brand new, you buy it first and use it for a few years. Then I'll buy it from you.

[Brockx]

I recently bought my first RV. We looked for about 2 months at a particular price point, were not zeroed in on particular brand or class. We wanted to try RV'ing and go from there.

We found alot of "oinkers" in our search, units that just were not taken care of. Finally found a 1996 PA Vision and bought it for between $9999 and $10,101 (don't really want to discuss price). Needed alot of little things, all things I can do with the help of this forum.

I don't think I will ever buy one any newer than five years from current year due to the huge depreciation. I will have this 1996 awhile unless something major gets ugly. My only real concerns are engine, transmission, roof / water problems on a used unit, every thing else is minor IMHO.

[szy]

Originally Posted by Deucenut

This is an interesting discussion. We are currently still looking for our first Motorhome. I am in my mid 30's so I don't want a coach that is "too old" because I want it to last a long....long...long time, especially with how much they cost(I know, cost isn't supposed to be an issue). So for me, anything that is 2004 or older doesn't get considered. But for me and my wife, it is more about interior decor, exterior colours and options etc. But also I want it to last a long time, so I don't want a coach that is too old to start with. My plan is to buy a used coach now and when I retire in 20 years, we will upgrade to an new(er) coach. I figure by then it will be worn out as it could potentially be 25-30 years old. But I tend to take very good care of my things, so it will probably only look 15 years old

And this is the reason I posted this topic . I see many here recommending real old coaches to people and have to wonder how much work is that going to be keeping a 15 - 20 year coach running

[szy]

Originally Posted by wonderer1

ok let's go back to basics. are you a mechanic, can you work on things? if you are then you know a good deal. and if you're not and can't, then by all means buy as new as you can. the short and sweet.....

Short - and to the point I guess

[ahicks]

Originally Posted by szy

And this is the reason I posted this topic . I see many here recommending real old coaches to people and have to wonder how much work is that going to be keeping a 15 - 20 year coach running

,

OK, thinking about all this...

You were talking old, and too old? Maybe you could define the difference between them by the potential to bring the coach in question completely up to snuff? If you can do that (economically?), it's not too old?

I would say that unless you find one (a 15-20 year old coach) that's in perfect condition (agreed, not very likely) you need to figure out what might be involved in getting caught up on what's going on with it - whatever that might take, regarding both scheduled and non scheduled maintenance - and figure the price to do that in addition to the asking price? I would NEVER consider buying a coach where I didn't believe I could get completely caught up with it (the reason for not even considering a delam). Once caught up with it, I don't think it'll require much more attention than a 5 year old coach might need?

The big deal is the cost to get caught up? If you have to pay somebody to do that, you'll likely struggle justifying that expense when added to the purchase price of the coach and viewed as a whole - and comparing that to doing the same thing on a newer coach requiring less work.

On the other hand, you can make out smelling like a rose if you are willing and able to pour some sweat equity into this mix? When a project like this is approached as a hobby and labor written off as something other than an expense, these older coaches start making a ton of sense.

To add to all that, I think it fair to consider that for the most part there's no major new developments (building materials, methods, or appliances) wrapped up within the skin of a 3-5 year old coach than something built in the late 90's - especially when considering a DP. -Al

[WeatherTodd]

Originally Posted by szy

I dump a car at 10 years , I figure the beast is used up at that age

for a coach I would stretch that to maybe 15 years or so

I certainly would not buy a 20 year old coach for use other than maybe a beater camper unit type of deal .

your thoughts ?


stay away from the cost aspect of this topic it isn't relevant to the discussion IMO

sounds like you are just the consumer type this economy needs.
I have a neighbor that buys used vehicles all the time from neglectful owners. He makes them look pretty darn good with sweat equity.
Nothing more exciting than to see a well cared for older vehicle.

[WeatherTodd]

Originally Posted by Deucenut

This is an interesting discussion. We are currently still looking for our first Motorhome. I am in my mid 30's so I don't want a coach that is "too old" because I want it to last a long....long...long time, especially with how much they cost(I know, cost isn't supposed to be an issue). So for me, anything that is 2004 or older doesn't get considered. But for me and my wife, it is more about interior decor, exterior colours and options etc. But also I want it to last a long time, so I don't want a coach that is too old to start with. My plan is to buy a used coach now and when I retire in 20 years, we will upgrade to an new(er) coach. I figure by then it will be worn out as it could potentially be 25-30 years old. But I tend to take very good care of my things, so it will probably only look 15 years old

Its not hard to keep a coach looking nice. 2004 being old?? is that like saying you cant watch television on anything smaller than 60" screen because it hurts your eyes?

[Deucenut]

Originally Posted by WeatherTodd

Its not hard to keep a coach looking nice. 2004 being old?? is that like saying you cant watch television on anything smaller than 60" screen because it hurts your eyes?

No I don't necessarily think a 2004 coach is "old". The reason my wife and I want to stay 2005 or newer is because of decor, options etc. My wife doesn't like the all brass look inside with the rose colored cabinets and carpets etc. I know the "older" crowd doesn't mind that color scheme(you can decide if you fit into the "older" crowd...) To be honest, I found a really nice 2000 Newmar Dutchstar 38'. Really nice paint scheme, really ugly interior. So that ruled that coach out for us. It seems that 2005 or newer has nicer cherry colored cabinets and stainless or brushed silver for knobs/taps etc. It's just what we like.

[WeatherTodd]

Originally Posted by Deucenut

No I don't necessarily think a 2004 coach is "old". The reason my wife and I want to stay 2005 or newer is because of decor, options etc. My wife doesn't like the all brass look inside with the rose colored cabinets and carpets etc. I know the "older" crowd doesn't mind that color scheme(you can decide if you fit into the "older" crowd...) To be honest, I found a really nice 2000 Newmar Dutchstar 38'. Really nice paint scheme, really ugly interior. So that ruled that coach out for us. It seems that 2005 or newer has nicer cherry colored cabinets and stainless or brushed silver for knobs/taps etc. It's just what we like.

Its not hard to change a coach interior. Valance boxes are easily covered. Carpets/flooring can be changed. Sofas/dinettes can be reupohlstered.

I have to finish my murphy be setup so I can turn my bedroom into a changing room. The bed is such a waste of space.

[Possum]

Denise and I have two units. We just did about 10,000 miles on our 1977 24' C Class and had so much fun we decided to buy a larger unit. We found a 29' 1994 Winnebago Adventurer that Denise fell in love with so we bought it. Nice interior with wooden cabinets and a full rear bedroom. We may keep the C Class as our bombing about the bush rig because the A unit cannot get to a few of the wilderness fishing spots we like to frequent.

Both these units have equipment in them that my limited mechanical abilities can keep running without having to haul a full diagnostic facility with me. I saw some beautiful vintage equipment on our walkabout last spring and all were running just fin thank you.

The really great thing is we parked amongst some swanky huge new units and we were never snubbed by fellow campers on the whole journey. I guess for the most part we have a very sociable crowd in the Rving community.

[Damon92]

If you want to buy an older one and worry about loading the cooler and hanging air freshener its not for you. I bought my first motorhome in July (1992 Damon Challenger DP) knowing I would need $2000 to get it where I wanted. Well, a few months later Ive got about $5,000 in upgrades to bring my total to $15000 roughly. However, if you make the upgrades count (cooling system/fluids) you will have a rig that you can feel confident taking anywhere. I have countless hours and more money than I ever thought I would but I have know regrets thanks to a lot of help from this site. An older unit may require work up front but if its done right it should only have to be done once and you can enjoy it. I tour the southeast with my band pulling my trailer every week and have put 3000 miles already. Also the ZEP polish is worth the 20 hrs of work it took on my rig. Mine doesn't look new, but like a well cared for older machine. I am happy with that.

[SylviaCub]

Maybe it comes down to Pride of workmanship. Old is not necessarily bad.... new is not necessarily good. I buy a lot of "vintage" hand tools for leather work, because their modern counterparts are imports and are no longer hand ground by skilled tool maker. The tool impressions from the modern ones is less crisp and are made from inferior materials and they bend and sometimes break during the process of tooling leather.

Then there is Guitars. Older guitars were hand crafted by skilled luthiers. As they were played by loving hands the wood "opens up" and the result is a superior sound. This is one of the reasons some older acoustic guitars are worth as much as most folks' houses. Pride in craftsmanship.

Shortly after I got the 1979, I went to look at 2012 and 2013 TTs for ideas. I found gaps, creaking floors, mis-alignments in $32,000 trailers. Then a little online research brought up an issue of newer trailers supposedly being designed to rot through poor quality materials and engineering EVEN WITH following the owner following maintenance schedules. I suspect that even the ultra-high end rigs are not much better. Though I would hope that those who own high end coaches don't find my suspicions warranted.

[kalynzoo]

This summer I had the pleasure of being camped near a Cortez Club...These were well maintained or restored Cortez Motorhomes from the 1965 time zone. I remember looked at them lovingly as a college student thinking that it would beat an apartment in Tucson.
On another trip this summer I walked by a restored bus type motorhome, I think it was a Bluebell, but not sure. Again, nice coach.
If it is functional, appreciated, and doesn't require too much upkeep I think it is still very much still worthwhile (just like me!!!!)
Happy Trails

[SteveSkinner]

This is a great thread and is relevant to us at the moment
We just returned from a great 10 week 6000 mile trip. Had a blast
Thought was to upgrade to flat screens and Amish cooling or trade the 2001 Dynasty - that we love.
I thought I'd bought it right 2 yrs ago but would still take a bath on a trade.
So the logic to me is don't upgrade the current coach buy a later model.
4 slides instead of 2 Maybe a signature.
Now prjce comes into it. To add another $100k to the cost of our 2 x 8-10 week holidays.
So I get a better coach for those 18 weeks but I've got additional depreciation and storage costs.
What else can I do with that money.
If its just going to depreciate maybe I spend it on holidays, put it into superannuation.
I'm sure age now comes into it.
Turning 60 should, kids getting married, grand children possibly will limit our extended USA holidays.
I could probably take the family and partners skiing in Japan 5 times for the $100k - 4 xmas's doing what I love most.
We are not all made from the same mould.
So a coach for everybody, inc new so the manufacturers are able to stay in business to sell us those spare parts.
So for me. Looking for a deal on a Signature 2004 on that I can justify the capital cost of
There are a couple going cheap at the moment but by the time I get to use it it will already be a yr older