Why can't gas engines be in the rear, or why can't they be front wheel drive?

[Charles27909]

Originally Posted by DryCreek

I see the advantage of diesel engines over gas - they produce their "power" at a lower RPM. That's why we have a diesel pickup to haul our hay/cattle/equipment/etc. I love a diesel engine.


but....


We have a V-10 gasser motor home. It spins at a higher RPM, but is also half the price of a comparable motor home in its size. That being said, I would love to find a 32' motor home with an ISB (CP3/CRI). I like the Winnebago/Itasca 32T (except for the refrigerator being in the slide). I have one bookmarked up in Oklahoma. We may go take a look at it next week.


but...….


Also having an engineering background, I do realize that he torque argument is moot. What is the definition of "work" (W)? The ability to apply a force over a distance. What is the definition of "torque"? The work that can be exerted over a distance (or, work in a rotational direction). What is the definition of Horsepower? The rate at which work is applied. When you look at reciprocating internal combustion engines and realize that torque and horsepower curves will always cross at 5,200 RPM, then you understand that the only difference between the two types of propulsion are the RPM band where they make their power - or the ability to exert a force over a distance (torque) at a given rate. The comparison between gassers (max GCVWR of 26K lbs) to a DP are quite moot (GVWR of 40k and higher). The ISX in 12L to 15L displacement is as different as apples to oranges. When comparing fuel types, why don't we limit the comparison to like-displacements, such as the ISB (5.9L or now 6.7L) or the MaxxFarce?

MaxxForce International engine....biggest hunk of junk made...only good for a boat anchor....lol

[F4Jock]

Originally Posted by Charles27909

I have so often wondered the same. An on board air compressor and regular air ride suspension hardware is the only things needed....oh and about a $5,000 - $10,000 increase in price. But I would argue that would be welcomed when compared to the total upgrade cost going from gas to diesel pusher. Factory air ride on gas powered units would fill a void in the market left open for people desiring air ride but a big diesel pusher may be out of the budget.

Personally, I am a fan of converted buses. Built heavy, built to last, and hold up very well over time and doesn't go into a gazillion pieces if involved in a wreck.

Try SumoSprings and new Konis all around. Made a HUGE difference in my old girl's ride and handling! And no air compressor or leaks to worry about!

[TQ60]

Diesel horses are bigger than gas ones..

Diesel are Clydesdale and gas are race horse.

Our 16 hp John Deere diesel garden tractor has more available power than the 18 hp gas sears one.

Other mentioned much physics but it comes down to efficiency of the engine and available energy in the fuel.

Modern EFI turbocharged gas engines are better than those of the past but modern diesels also better so comparisons still relevant.

Propane has the least amount if energy followed by gas then diesel.

Boat oil more still but that is another story.

A gallon of gas in a perfect engine can output a certain amount of total work and a gallon of diesel in a similar perfect engine will output more work than that of the gas one.

The race horse goes a given distance faster while the Clydesdale may take a bit longer to go same distance but the race horse is done for the day carrying the little jockey while the Clydesdale is almost ready to start at the same distance pulling the wagon of beer

The point is either engine can be made to do the same work with enough modifications and cost of fuel economy but the normal configuration of both result in substantial different performance characteristics that make direct comparisons moot.

[Cloud Dancer]

I get it! Looking at the last few opinions on this thread, the best RV for ME is the clean, one-owner Diesel Dutch Star that I own (it's paid for). It'll last me for the rest of my life.
And, my gas-engined 4x4 GMC Envoy (paid for) is a great choice for pulling behind my diesel pusher.

[Charles27909]

Originally Posted by Cloud Dancer

I get it! Looking at the last few opinions on this thread, the best RV for ME is the clean, one-owner Diesel Dutch Star that I own (it's paid for). It'll last me for the rest of my life.
And, my gas-engined 4x4 GMC Envoy (paid for) is a great choice for pulling behind my diesel pusher.

Can the GMC Envoy be flat towed with all wheels on the ground?

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Charles27909

I have so often wondered the same. An on board air compressor and regular air ride suspension hardware is the only things needed....oh and about a $5,000 - $10,000 increase in price. But I would argue that would be welcomed when compared to the total upgrade cost going from gas to diesel pusher. Factory air ride on gas powered units would fill a void in the market left open for people desiring air ride but a big diesel pusher may be out of the budget.

Personally, I am a fan of converted buses. Built heavy, built to last, and hold up very well over time and doesn't go into a gazillion pieces if involved in a wreck.

And , you will be assured air ride..... I think doing a spring to full air is a waste. It’s like doing a total make over of a house.....it’s cheaper to start new....and I have done both ! I had a bus based unit for 4 years, it was older ( 1998 ) ,no slides but served us well...that extra 10,000 lbs does make a lasting difference. I hope I will enjoy my Foretravel ( non bus ) as much the next few years every winter.

[Cloud Dancer]

Originally Posted by Charles27909

Can the GMC Envoy be flat towed with all wheels on the ground?

YES, and no restrictions. ALSO, it has NO steering wheel lock. AND, I installed a lightbulb socket inside each tail light fixture such that I can have tail lights without hooking up to its electrical system. This means I turn everything off, take the keys, and lock it all up, and GO.

[nothermark]

Originally Posted by darstar

Not so anymore......the days of small displacement diesels is over. Today we can match the MH to the appropriate engine. What drove the attempt using small diesels in giant boxes with windage was better fuel mileage. And ,when you get into the high end / more bus like units that weigh 50k or more there the choice totally disappears.

I was talking about the big block gas engine not being able to pass EPA. GM could not make it happen with a carbureated engine so they dropped the really big block. End of competition between diesel and gasoline for bus use. I would not be surprised to learn that the Ford V-10 is hanging somewhere near that limit with better technology. That makes the issue government, not physics.

Small block diesel may or may not be over. They are a product of the CAFE standards and European fuel tax laws. I don't expect Europe to rework their fuel taxes so the small diesels will most likely continue to run. The question is whether they will be on this side of the pond for CAFE reasons.

[Moderator Edit]

[darstar]

Originally Posted by nothermark

I was talking about the big block gas engine not being able to pass EPA. GM could not make it happen with a carbureated engine so they dropped the really big block. End of competition between diesel and gasoline for bus use. I would not be surprised to learn that the Ford V-10 is hanging somewhere near that limit with better technology. That makes the issue government, not physics.

Small block diesel may or may not be over. They are a product of the CAFE standards and European fuel tax laws. I don't expect Europe to rework their fuel taxes so the small diesels will most likely continue to run. The question is whether they will be on this side of the pond for CAFE reasons.

[Moderator Edit]

[Moderator Edit]
When I was talking about small diesels, I ment big box RV with an earlier Cummins B series 190 hp. There were lots of examples of mis matched vehicles. Car wise the old Mecerdies wagon non turbo....a real dog , even on flat ground.....

[Spk64]

We have had to edit some post headed the wrong way. Please keep the post on topic and within the community rules.

Thanks,

[Unplanned Tourist]

I am in Norway right now, and there are loads of front wheel drive, diesel motorhomes in the 20 to 30 foot range. Some even have tandem rear axels.
I haven't had a chance to look and see if any have air ride yet. I'll try to stop into a dealer and get some pictures.
Happy Glamping.

[consolenut]

That is changing next year gm in tandem with someone else is make an 8.9 liter gas engine. Instead of 496 displacement in 8.1. A 538 in an 8.9.

And even an 8.1L with a small vortech supercharger. Belt driven off the crank pulley. Is extremely dependable tune it right and you can get it into the 900-1100 ft/lb of torque easy. Raylar engineering does it quite easily.

[edgray]

Originally Posted by consolenut

That is changing next year gm in tandem with someone else is make an 8.9 liter gas engine. Instead of 496 displacement in 8.1. A 538 in an 8.9.........

Are you referring to the 8.8 L engine from PSI, or is there someone else out there with a different successor to the GM 8.1L ?

[ScoobyDoo]

Last week I was reading a ad in a magazine for a new model of International truck. One of the features was the "war proven" 585 CID, gas engine with 450 foot pounds torque from 900 to 1600 RPM. I can find no other info on the engine, but with the right gears that could move a MH.



BTW, the mag was dated Oct 1946....