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Old 04-01-2015, 10:00 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by PDR John View Post
It's all on paper, the depreciation/no depreciation, all on paper. That's why nobody can put real world figures out there. Right now, on paper, I haven't lost the 30% everybody says I have.

As I've stated many times: I would have to sell today to know exactly what it's real worth is.

Let's say I keep this coach for 10-15 years, putting 10-12k miles on it per year. Living in it for 6-9 months each year, for work.

At that time I sell it for $50,000, how much will I lose?

I have to live in something while working on the road. Even buying new is cheaper then motel rooms. Plus I get to write the whole thing off.
here's how you loose 30%


my new motorhome was msrp..$203.000.00

there are people that actually pay that or close...

I bought mine for 135,000.00


saved 68,000...33.5% off

now I go and sell my coach for 135k... just lost 33.5 5 of my savings,,
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Old 04-01-2015, 10:19 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by LVRVLUVR View Post
here's how you loose 30%


my new motorhome was msrp..$203.000.00

there are people that actually pay that or close...

I bought mine for 135,000.00


saved 68,000...33.5% off

now I go and sell my coach for 235k... just lost 33.5 5 of my savings,,
That's a hoot and so common. It shows just how sad this market is. The real value of something is hard to determine when the manufacturer never really expects anyone to pay at or near the MSRP. People with identical coaches paying all manner of prices. Yep, caveat eomptor but it's really nuts.

I used TrueCar and while it's only a starting place - and now uses MSRP savings versus invoice - it's still very helpful in getting to a good price on a new vehicle. PPL is good for that in the used market but we could sure benefit from a TrueClassA or other form of new motorhome buying tool. Anyone got seed money left over after buying your MH - new or used? Wait - I'm retired. No w**k for me.
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Old 04-01-2015, 10:28 AM   #101
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That's a hoot and so common. It shows just how sad this market is. The real value of something is hard to determine when the manufacturer never really expects anyone to pay at or near the MSRP. People with identical coaches paying all manner of prices. Yep, caveat eomptor but it's really nuts.

I used TrueCar and while it's only a starting place - and now uses MSRP savings versus invoice - it's still very helpful in getting to a good price on a new vehicle. PPL is good for that in the used market but we could sure benefit from a TrueClassA or other form of new motorhome buying tool. Anyone got seed money left over after buying your MH - new or used? Wait - I'm retired. No w**k for me.
typo... that was 135k...
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Old 04-01-2015, 11:28 AM   #102
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John - I agree with you 100%.
RVs are investments in quality of life. You can't quantify their intrinsic value and the psychic and utilitarian returns they pay over time. And, you can't expect the next owner to pay you for those returns. As long as the nonquantifiable returns are positive, you have exactly what you bargained for. The residual value at any point is just a fact of life.

I bought a new 1991 Airstream 190 B-van in 1991. I kept it until 2012. Put 145k miles on it. Nothing ever broke except the a/c compressor on the 460 EFI. In the end I gave it to a guy for $500. It was worth far more but I had no interest in trying to sell it or get every penny out of it. It owed me nothing and had served me very well. The next guy was extatic. In the 21 years I had that puppy I learned a ton about motor homes and stuff. Those years and that small version of a self contained coach enabled me - along with info here on this forum to buy the 08 Bounder DP right. I have made improvements to it - and still seem the like year and model advertised for $10 - $20 k over what I paid.

Your points and my experience are why I find this thread to be a little wonky. When there are strong feelings about personal choices it seems silly to argue one is better than the other. Live and let live ya know. Especially where RVing is concerned. I meet lots of folks with all manner of machines and towable boxes and for the most part - we all have way more in common than we have differences, so why hang on the minutia. A cup of coffee or adult beverage - a real campfire or propane - I can handle either. What's your poison. BTW - were headed to Bryce in August. Wanna tag along. See - new or used - I'm bemused.
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I agree with you 100%. What you did with the van is what we figured on doing with this. We will get all our needs out of it and then move on. Whenever/however that is.

Some are just so adamant that buying new is stupid, so I poke the bear for fun. The boredom of waiting for work to start.



I encourage people to buy the right RV for their lifestyle, not because it's cheap, what I bought, new or used. Sometimes it's not even a motor home. I met a couple people that only buy a cheap RV. They're not happy with it, so they get a different one. I added up all the numbers one man gave me, he spent over $300,000 on different motor homes over 4 years. He was getting ready to trade again, for another motor home that he didn't like the layout of. He was sure I was a fool for spending $239,000 once, to much money in his mind. I let it be, didn't matter to me, I'm happy with what I got.

I would love to hang out in Bryce Canyon, beautiful part of the country. We don't get to spend that much time in the southwest. Someday we'll tour it.

When and if we should meet up, we can agree on one thing: No used drinks!
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Old 04-01-2015, 12:50 PM   #103
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I bought my first MH used: the price was right and it met our actual needs.
It is small enough (Vista 26HE) for what we planned it for: travel across North america, a few days here and there, town & country visitings.
So we should keep this MH 3 or 4 years.

When we no longer take pleasure in being nomade, we shall become "snowbirds", staying at one place for longer periods of time during winter and back up North for summer.
We will want a longer and more luxurious MH. Maneuvrability will no longer be as important.
Considering that we will keep the same rig for years... we might consider buying a new one.
Then, depreciation should not be part of the equation because our expense will be amortized over a long period of time.

New or used? Depends of the situation, I am open to both.
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:26 PM   #104
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Fundamentally it does not matter what you purchase. It is your decision and you make your decision based on your values.

It is not right for anyone to suggest that my values are in question because I buy new so am in someway stupid or not as smart as they are because I face a depreciation number that is all over the board.
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:40 PM   #105
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Fundamentally it does not matter what you purchase. It is your decision and you make your decision based on your values.

It is not right for anyone to suggest that my values are in question because I buy new so am in someway stupid or not as smart as they are because I face a depreciation number that is all over the board.
X2, I think that is the mentality that bugs me the worst. On another thread I tried to explain that we were not stupid, and had made sound investments, which led us to being able to buy new, in addition to doing our homework and buying the same model MH new for less than a used one. The only response was a sarcastic, "wow you are one successful guy" which wasn't my point at all. Just that we aren't stupid, or the other remarks that come with it like keep buying new and get all the options so when I buy it for half the price, I'll be happy.....they go on and on.

Bottom line is nobody but my kids will end up with mine until it's most likely outlived it's technology, then someone will buy it and remodel it. And to Flaggship 1 where you asked if it were ever put on paper where someone bought New and didn't have depreciation. In one of my threads I said I was talking to my dealer, he offered to buy mine at what I paid for it, and give me a 28% discount on a new Newmar Ventanna, all on paper so we could see the additional money we needed to do the deal. The only thing we would have lost is the tax/license which nobody can avoid. We didn't do it because we really love ours and I'm not sure I want a diesel(whole nother debate), as we did our research and bought what we really wanted an worked for us...Again no right or wrong, just personal preference, and not being financially stupid, as the depreciation issue is way over exaggerated.
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Old 04-01-2015, 03:07 PM   #106
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X2, I think that is the mentality that bugs me the worst. On another thread I tried to explain that we were not stupid, and had made sound investments, which led us to being able to buy new, in addition to doing our homework and buying the same model MH new for less than a used one. The only response was a sarcastic, "wow you are one successful guy" which wasn't my point at all. Just that we aren't stupid, or the other remarks that come with it like keep buying new and get all the options so when I buy it for half the price, I'll be happy.....they go on and on.

Bottom line is nobody but my kids will end up with mine until it's most likely outlived it's technology, then someone will buy it and remodel it. And to Flaggship 1 where you asked if it were ever put on paper where someone bought New and didn't have depreciation. In one of my threads I said I was talking to my dealer, he offered to buy mine at what I paid for it, and give me a 28% discount on a new Newmar Ventanna, all on paper so we could see the additional money we needed to do the deal. The only thing we would have lost is the tax/license which nobody can avoid. We didn't do it because we really love ours and I'm not sure I want a diesel(whole nother debate), as we did our research and bought what we really wanted an worked for us...Again no right or wrong, just personal preference, and not being financially stupid, as the depreciation issue is way over exaggerated.
not being sarcastic...but I think you are a very Smart successful guy...

you know what you want and that's what you get...
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Old 04-01-2015, 07:56 PM   #107
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Mike - what I was asking was if there were any arms lengths actual transactions - where dollars and titles changed changed hands - or if John (and possibly others) were putting pencil to paper and seeing no deprication on theoretical early sales of new units.

I really have no issue with new or used. Good deals can be had on either front. So can bad deals. There is just so much funny money in the MSRP of new units that make it possible for a shrewd buyer such as yourself to be happy at sale time a year or two down the road and another to be locked up under water. It happens in the used market too.

I'm with you on one thing - when we don't get the others POV we should admire them for their commitment to their beliefs... not call them names. And again. I have no issue with anyone.
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Old 04-02-2015, 12:29 AM   #108
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Steve, thanks, I thought you were asking if anybody ever had a deal where they were not going to experience depreciation if they sold/traded in their MH. I know I didn't pull the trigger, but the offer was there in writing.


And I do agree with you there are a lot of people who made great deals buying used. Those days are not so much today with the economy recovering and people not in a rush to sell like they were a few years ago. My brother in law owns two dealerships where he buys used MH's and refurbishes them (if needed) and sells them. He used to get them at a steal, and makes a pretty good business out of it, but those super great deals are harder to find even for him, and he has several employees who look nationwide on a daily basis, and hits all the western state auctions. So we were open to buying used but never found what we wanted even though we would have gotten a great deal from him. My wife eventually said she really wanted a new one, so I ended up going new, as she deserves what she wants just for putting up with me. Take care...Mike
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Old 04-02-2015, 03:38 AM   #109
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If you can afford either to pay cash for, or make payments on a new rig and that's what you want more power to you. There are some nice machines out there. Being retired and on a fixed income if my wife and I decide to buy a newer unit we would still buy used. Our current rig was used when we picked it up and it has served us well over the years. We just don't want the payments and still have a house to maintain. It's paid for as is everything else and we'd like to keep it that way. Someday we've talked about getting a 36-40' DP, but then we hop in our Pace Arrow, head out for a long trip and still enjoy living in it. Buy a quality rig be it new or used and you won't regret your purchase. As stated many times over to each his own. It's not an inexpensive lifestyle, but it sure is a pleasurable one. :-)
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Old 04-02-2015, 08:06 AM   #110
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If you can afford either to pay cash for, or make payments on a new rig and that's what you want more power to you. There are some nice machines out there. Being retired and on a fixed income if my wife and I decide to buy a newer unit we would still buy used. Our current rig was used when we picked it up and it has served us well over the years. We just don't want the payments and still have a house to maintain. It's paid for as is everything else and we'd like to keep it that way. Someday we've talked about getting a 36-40' DP, but then we hop in our Pace Arrow, head out for a long trip and still enjoy living in it. Buy a quality rig be it new or used and you won't regret your purchase. As stated many times over to each his own. It's not an inexpensive lifestyle, but it sure is a pleasurable one. :-)

We no longer have an S&B and are now retired and full time. It took 5 years of planning and a little less than a year to find the rig and toad. Both are paid for and we have no debt. New or used was the least of our concerns. Debt free and getting out of the rat race before 60 were at the top of the list followed by a dependable rig with the right floor plan. We managed to make it happen and don't miss what we don't have. The journey is our destination.
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Old 04-03-2015, 12:35 AM   #111
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I want to own a Class A coach that cost $500,000.00.

I can't afford that.

Well, I don't think I can.

Well, maybe I can, but I don't want to.

I'll wait until I can buy it in pristine used condition for $120,000.00.

I can afford that.

Well, I'm pretty sure I can.

Well, maybe I can't, but I want to.

Jim
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Old 04-03-2015, 05:38 PM   #112
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Owned 3 motorhomes. Bought 2 new last one used. Have never had any issues like that. Buying new or used either do a major survey yourself or pay an expert (used for sure). It'll save you money and headaches.
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