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Old 11-12-2015, 12:22 AM   #85
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Top 3 reason for car accidents from http://www.drivers.com/article/1173/

3. Drunk Driving

Driving under the influence is one of the most dangerous behaviors on the road today. Over 1.41 million drivers were arrested in 2010 on suspicion of driving under the influence. MADD – Mothers Against Drunk Driving – estimates that 300,000 incidents of drunk driving occur daily. It goes without saying that drunk driving is hazardous and irresponsible. Accidents that occur by way of drunk driving are completely preventable. Do your part by always designating a sober driver well ahead of time. Prepay and arrange for your taxi ride before going out. And hide your friends’ keys if you suspect they may be too intoxicated to drive.

2. Speeding

Everything around us is centered on the lure of quick convenience. Drive-thrus, ATMs, and corner stores are just some examples of our need for speed. But on the roadway, speed is undoubtedly deadly. Speeding is one of the most prevalent causes of car accident today according to the U.S. Department of Transportation. Speeding contributes to about a third of all car accidents in America. Slow down and give yourself ample time to get where you need to go. It’s not worth saving 10 minutes for the potential of losing your life or putting another person in danger.

1. Distracted Driving

Distracted driving continues to be the number one leading cause of car accidents in America. Talking on the phone, texting, eating, reading, grooming, and talking are just some of the ways drivers get distracted behind the wheel. Drivers who use a hand-held device are 4 times more likely to get into a car accident than drivers that pay attention to the road ahead. Individuals who text message while driving are 23 times more likely to get into an accident. Do not risk your safety or your life. Put everything down and pay attention to the road ahead. It’s the single most important thing you can do today to reduce your risk of getting into a car accident.

or https://seriousaccidents.com/legal-a...car-accidents/
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Old 11-12-2015, 12:49 AM   #86
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Drunk Driving can now include pot and other "recreational drugs"!

I'd really like to do some breaking tests! Our rig, as do some others, has 6 position air disk brakes along with a three position engine brake. Under severe braking I know the engine brake has no meaning since the ABS will be activated to keep the wheels turning slightly for control but wow does it stop.
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:35 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by jacwjames View Post
I use to hate riding in a car with my father in law, and he always made me ride in the back seat. He was the epitome of the "cautious" driver. He would drive 45-55 on the interstate, where the speed was 70-75. In town it was proportional. As he approached a stop light that was green he would almost come to a complete stop before crossing the intersection even though it was green. It drove me nuts and scared the heck out me. I was always looking behind us.

Guess what, one day on the interstate a semi didn't judge (probably couldn't rationalize) that my FIL was going ~45 MPH and he rear ended him pushing him off the interstate. My FIL had his granddaughter in the car with him but fortunately no one was seriously injured.

Now tell me this type of driving behavior is not unsafe.
I have read the past columns on speeding and also this one. I have not seen one person calling for driving 45 mph on the interstate. Most of us who like to drive slower are in the 60 mph range. If the speed limit is 70, that is a ten mph difference. Avoiding a car or motorhome going ten mph slower should not be a problem.
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Old 11-12-2015, 09:30 AM   #88
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10mph less than the average speed puts you at the greatest risk for collision.
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Old 11-12-2015, 09:56 AM   #89
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Wa8yzm - Seems we've had this conversation before.

As I've mentioned in previous posting about this subject. I will judge what actions I deem appropriate for the given emergency.

If I believe dialing 911 is the best course, then thats what I will do. If I deem driving 90mph in rain, snow, or sleet, with bald tires that are only rated at 65 mph on a crowded highway, is the best course of action, then thats what I will do.

I choose not to judge someone else s actions without having all the facts. I have no idea why the person the OP was refering to was doing what he did. Perhaps he just saved a life by making it to the ER instead of waiting for the 911 responders, or, maybe he was just being an irresponsible idiot.
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:01 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Waiter21 View Post
Wa8yzm - Seems we've had this conversation before.

As I've mentioned in previous posting about this subject. I will judge what actions I deem appropriate for the given emergency.

If I believe dialing 911 is the best course, then thats what I will do. If I deem driving 90mph in rain, snow, or sleet, with bald tires that are only rated at 65 mph on a crowded highway, is the best course of action, then thats what I will do.

I choose not to judge someone else s actions without having all the facts. I have no idea why the person the OP was refering to was doing what he did. Perhaps he just saved a life by making it to the ER, or maybe he was just being an irresponsible idiot.

I think your 90 MPH. Is a bit high! But as long as you have nitrogen added to your tires it should be ok.

Russell
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:02 AM   #91
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Challenger, thanks for the chuckle

MRT,
As with all studies, it's rarely pure science seems like 'someone' is always wanting to slant it one way or the other to prove their point (or increase their grant money !)

having worked in statistical analysis for about 10 years way back when, I proved that many times 'facts' can be easily misrepresented...

While I agree that those three are regular contributors, speeding is the least of them UNLESS the others contribute

What about the race car drivers doing 200 mph? Shouldn't they crash MUCH more ? I'll bet they don't even given that they are going at the limits of adhesion, the limits of their equipment, and the limits of technology... So, what's different about them than us ? Attentiveness... if you are paying attention and aware, you will be safer than if not...

Again, put everyone on motorcycles for the first 90 days of driving and they WILL pay attention! (at least those that survive will )

It's all what you are used to and comfortable at, once you prove yourself and your equipment, you may surprise yourself...
after all, for a LONG time, they thought the earth was flat and the four minute mile was impossible !
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:02 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan and Ann View Post
This weekend I was on I-73 S in NC in my car when a beautiful MH towing a full size pickup passed me doing about 75 MPH. Speed limit was 65, raining roads full of water, and lots of traffic. No way he could have stopped in an emergency. Just wondering why speed in conditions like that? Would not put everyone else on the road in danger that way. Thoughts?
Same reason people in 4x4's think they can go 75 on snow covered roads.
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:20 AM   #93
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I'll put my two cents in. I really think that most people that drive motorhomes and 5th wheels still think they are driving a car.
  • They drive fast just like they do in a car.
  • They think they can stop as fast as a car.
  • They think they can drive in any lane just like a car.
The problem is they are not driving a 3,000 to 5,000 pound car your driving a 26,000 to 60,000 pound RV. Anyone, and yes I meed anyone including the experience drivers, driving at 70MPH or more are reckless drivers. Why?
  • Your right on the edge of your tires ratings.
  • In an emergence there is no way you'll stop in time at those speeds.
  • The kinetic energy of an RV when the speed is increases by just 10MPH is extreme. KE in foot pounds for a 26,000 pound RV at:
    55 = 2,629,212
    60 = 3,128,981
    70 = 4,258,891
    75 = 4,889,033
    80 = 5,562,633. As you can see between 50 and 80 the KE almost doubles so you're basically driving a bomb.
Any sane person driving an RV will stay at the posted speeds for towing, 60 in virtually every state, even if you're not towing, except in CA in which case stay at 60 unless you're towing. Why? Because at those speeds you:
  • Have good control over you're vehicle.
  • You can stop in a reasonable distance.
  • You're not running at the edge of you're tires limits.
  • You will get the best milage.
So this is my belief and you don't have to agree but I'm sticking to it. If someone wants to drive outside these limits please stay away from me.
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:21 AM   #94
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The Solomon Curve shown by COMA above was developed from a study done in 1964, "Accidents on main rural highways related to speed, driver, and vehicle". (Probably not too many interstate highway crashes included here.)

In 1971 West and Dunn determined that 44% of the crashes in Solomon’s data involved turning vehicles. When these crashes were removed, the high and low speed differences for crash rates disappeared.

My two sources are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve
ACCIDENTS, SPEED DEVIATION AND SPEED LIMITS - Transport Research International Documentation - TRID
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:50 AM   #95
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Ah yes, the wonderful Solomon’s Curve. Just at a glance the curve tells us that travelling 6.2mph slower than the average puts you at the greatest risk of collision, travelling at 6.2mph faster puts you at the least risk. And, to obtain the same level of risk on the faster side, you would have to speed up to 12.4mph faster.

Most of today’s research references the Solomon Curve, a study conducted 51 years ago. Some conflicting studies suggest that speeds above the average rate of flow increase collision probability exponentially, while speeds below exhibit less risk than speeds above (still more risk than running at average). Multiple studies have even stated in their conclusions “No evidence for a U-shaped (‘Solomon’s Curve’) relation between speed and crash risk.”. One of those studies does not a show curve, but a line on the slow side that is slightly decreasing down to “safest” point, just beyond average, and then rapidly climbing.

Many suggest that the Solomon’s Curve falls victim to Simpson’s Paradox.

Quote:
Solomon’s Curve, however, becomes less convincing when measurement error is taken into account. Errors in speed measurement, arising from the fact that investigators must estimate the speeds of vehicles by interviewing drivers, measuring skid marks, etc.—can give rise to inaccuracies in statistical results. Later researchers like White and Nelson (1970) showed how Solomon-type curves can arise entirely as artifacts of measurement error.

The fact that Solomon aggregated his data from a number of different sources also leaves it open to a surprising possibility—the real relationship, if it exists, that Solomon proposes to show in his data may be just the opposite of what the graph suggests. This is due to a statistical oddity known as Simpson’s Paradox (first noted not by anyone named Simpson but by one Karl Pearson, in 1899). Briefly, Simpson’s Paradox consists of the fact that an apparent causal effect shown in disaggregated data is reversed when the data are aggregated.
Even still, let’s assume Solomon’s Curve is the end-all be-all that some think it to be.

As was mentioned, the upward curve on the “above” side only begins after the speed above average increases by 6.2mph.

So, while saying traveling faster than average rate of flow is safer than travelling slower may be true, it is a misleading statement. And, quite frankly, this is how the research is presented when you read an article, or see a blurb on the local news: The headline reads “Research Shows Slower Vehicles Cause More Accidents!”. Crash data does not support the headline.

Stats don't lie. But the way those stats are presented may not tell the truth.

So yeh, I’ll stand by the math when we are talking about “slow” being 60mph. The “slow” RVer can be easily avoided if you are paying attention. And considering that RVer is tooling around with something likely 5 times (or more) the weight of your car, you may thank him if you have to come to a sudden stop in front of him.

As far as the lane change theory goes, according to the NHTSA, 46.1% of collisions occur when travelling straight, while 2.1% occur while changing lanes. Again, the slower vehicle is not the cause of a lane change collision. The cause is likely inattentiveness or aggressiveness by the driver changing lanes.

And, like I mentioned before, if you are blazing the highways in your 43 foot bus towing a hummer behind you at 75mph; party on. I honestly hope you arrive at your destination safely.
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Old 11-12-2015, 11:32 AM   #96
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Hehe, I agree there are some problems with the Solomon finding, statistically speaking. This curve has been corroborated by Cirrilo, too.

That said, the dearth of info on this subject is telling. Seriously, who would fund a study to prove that driving a bit faster than average is safer? Insurance companies? Law enforcement? Further, it's findings are in conflict with common knowledge.

Slower involves less Kinetic Energy, no doubt. Faster requires its own responsibility to acknowledge greater energy. The question is really, safer that what? Trucks, for example, log millions of miles with out incident, many travel at the speed limit.

I don't really care how fast or slow you go. If I am in your way I will eventually pull over to let you pass. If you're in my way I will either pass, safely, or stop for lunch.

Enjoy!
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Old 11-12-2015, 11:57 AM   #97
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Why the need for speed?

I drive slower to enjoy the ride and scenery, and to stay in my RPM sweet spot. Being alert for those that drive aggressively is my defense. It works!
Graphs, guesses, hyperbole and such make me no nevermind, and don't justify a thing. And it does not change the driving habits of anyone.
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Old 11-12-2015, 12:12 PM   #98
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I still drive the Island Highway at 105 (wide lanes and lots of passing possibilities) but much to the chagrin of many many people including the police the speed limit was increased from 110 KPH (70 mph) to 120 KPH (75 mph) and the rates of accidents went down. When we are out there headed north or south in our daily drivers we drive the 120 but I noticed one strange thing. When we are slow poking along at about 63mph in the RV we are not passing any transports that ply the highway and we get passed by all kinds of daily drivers. Most of the truckers up here are more cognizant of the fuel costs (much higher) and drive accordingly. I guess even big rigs have sweet spots.
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