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Old 11-29-2014, 02:47 PM   #1
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Will these freeze

I have one of these fire extinguishers and a few small one in the MH from Mac the Fire Guy. What about winterizing, will these water based extinguishers freeze, Thanks




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At the door of your RV, in the cab of your pickup or on the wall in you rboat, our SS45 hand held rechargeable extinguisher will give you real fire fighting capabilities. Our light, aluminum cylinder holds 2 liters of AFFF Plus foam suppressant charged with nitrogen. Pull the pin, squeeze the handle and you will have hi-tech foam at your disposal. Non toxic, non corrosive, distilled water based organic foam washes off with water and will not cause damage like dry powder chemical systems.
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Old 11-29-2014, 04:15 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by adonh View Post
I have one of these fire extinguishers and a few small one in the MH from Mac the Fire Guy. What about winterizing, will these water based extinguishers freeze, Thanks




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At the door of your RV, in the cab of your pickup or on the wall in you rboat, our SS45 hand held rechargeable extinguisher will give you real fire fighting capabilities. Our light, aluminum cylinder holds 2 liters of AFFF Plus foam suppressant charged with nitrogen. Pull the pin, squeeze the handle and you will have hi-tech foam at your disposal. Non toxic, non corrosive, distilled water based organic foam washes off with water and will not cause damage like dry powder chemical systems.
I would call and ask......about their product and freezing temps......looks like it will freeze to me
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Old 11-29-2014, 05:53 PM   #3
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Will they freeze... Though I can not be sure the answer is most likely yes, HOWEVER....... I think your question is wrong.

Most people when they ask about freezing are asking about water, Water, when it freezes, epands, this can burst pipes, and cause other issues.

What is in those anti-fire bottles IS NOT WATER.

Of all the materials on this earth, ONLY one that is known today, expands as it freezes, and that, of course is water.

So can they freeze.. I would say yes, all liquids can (though some of them get down right chilly first, like -273C) but no damage happens, and when it thaws it is good again.

And no, I do not know the freezing point.
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Old 11-29-2014, 06:04 PM   #4
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Yes. AFFF is a water-based product. Aqueous Film-Forming Foam. It is mixed with water at point-of-use, travels through the fire hose as a mixture of product and water, and emits from the hose nozzle as foaming water, so-to-speak. If my memory serves me, it used to be made from cows blood back in the 60's. It is environmentally-friendly. It's intended use is for hydrocarbon fires.
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Old 11-29-2014, 06:52 PM   #5
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I've sent an E-mail to "Max the Fire Guy" asking about the potential to freeze in the extinguisher if left in an unheated RV. I'll report the answer when I get it. Doing much reading on the topic, it's very hard to tell specifics. I wouldn't automatically assume since it's water based, it will freeze. After all, engine coolant is also water based, but doesn't freeze until ultra low temperatures. AFFF (aqueous film forming foam) has many formulations and concentrations. I found some that say they have a freezing point of 2 C (35.6 F) AFFF 3% Plus - Fomtec.com
Another claims freezing point is -25 C (-13 F) FC AFFF 3% F-25 20Lt Can

Common number found at numerous websites mention 35 F as minimum temperature for use, but storage is unharmed by freezing. I also found the shelf life can be reduced by temperature fluctuations, it's best stored at a constant temperature. In none of the ads for AFFF products is it mentioned that the container will rupture in freezing conditions, which seems like a pretty common condition in a vehicle in northern winters.
adonh
Very good question adonh, I'll let you know what I find out.
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:41 PM   #6
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I have one of my 16oz. extinguishers in front of me now. The caution on the back label says "avoid freezing".
Mac stated at one of the irv2.com rallies (where I bought the 3-pack), that these should be replaced every 3 years to ensure reliability.
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Old 12-03-2014, 10:14 PM   #7
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I got a response from "Mac the Fire Guy." He said,"Our extinguishers are water based, but they are freeze/thaw protected. They do not freeze solid because it is foam and under pressure. I advise taking the hand held units inside to protect your home. If you get the engine compartment unit, it will be safe in the engine compartment.
Mac"


So they can withstand the cold temperatures of winter without bursting the container. However, I imagine they won't function as expected when ultra cold, or have as long a life, only suggested at three years before replacing.

The absolute statements about water being the ONLY known substance that expands when changing state from liquid to solid is patently not true. Water is a molecule of hydrogen and oxygen. Upon turning to a solid (freezing) the bonds of the molecules form a structure that takes up more space than the molecules in a liquid state. Four elements also do the same thing when forming a solid. Silicon (Si), Germanium(Ge), Antimony(Sb), and Bismuth(Bi) expand when 'freezing.' They do this because of their crystalline structure. Sb and Bi are rhombahedral, while Si and Ge are diamond cubic crystals. (Water forms hexagonal lattice crystals, reflected in the 6 pointed snow flakes in certain conditions.)

Besides these 5 substances, there are other compounds that expand upon changing from liquid to solid state. Water is just the most commonly experienced one. This property of expansion is utilized by typesetting machines that use an alloy containing antimony to keep the shape of the cast type.

By the way, I'll call on myself, but as a retired science teacher I couldn't let the misstatements go without doing a little teaching.
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Old 12-04-2014, 10:49 AM   #8
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BTW, Mac said to use the post-3 yr old extinguishers for practice after they have been replaced. He selected my wife to use one at one of the irv2.com rallies one time. She now is confident and adept at using one, its time for practice again this spring. Doesn't matter if they have been frozen to use for practice.
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Old 12-04-2014, 12:01 PM   #9
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Are you saying he used one ON your wife? If she's anything like my wife she'd be hotter after the test than before.
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Old 12-05-2014, 08:56 PM   #10
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Are you saying he used one ON your wife? If she's anything like my wife she'd be hotter after the test than before.
Naww, she was the "trainee". If he would have attempted than I would have stopped him, I gotta live with her-forever.
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