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View Poll Results: I am in the process of buying my first Class A and would like some feedback or advice on which driv
workhorse 75 78.13%
Ford V-10 21 21.88%
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Old 03-18-2005, 04:24 PM   #1
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Old 03-18-2005, 04:24 PM   #2
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Old 03-19-2005, 02:36 AM   #3
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gdewolf,
Welcome to irv2 I have owned Fords in four previous MH's but I will have to go with the WH I now have. The ride an power can not be beat, for a gas chassis. The three V-10,s I had were a good power train but could not support the coachs on them, they were not as quite also. There is alot of posts in the Workhorse Forum on this site comparing these two chassis. Look around you will find information on the type of MH you maybe looking for also.---"007"
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Old 03-19-2005, 03:57 AM   #4
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Get some info about the new 3 valve V-10 and 5 speed tranny before you compare the Workhorse against a V-10. I have the new V-10 in my 05 superduty, but don't know if it's available in MH chassis yet - but it will soon if it currently isn't.

On a truck forum I visit, I'm also hearing GM will release a V-10 in the near future.

The one thing you will get with the new V-10 when it's available in a MH that you won't have now, is a B.S.E.G. , whenever another gaseser is next to you!!
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Old 03-19-2005, 07:25 AM   #5
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I think that Ford's F53 Detroit Chassis has finally come around to being competitive however when you look at the substance of the "new" Ford you will plainly see what is lacking and what features that they adopted to emulate Workhorse.

The F53 has been loosing ground consistently in the large Class A gas motorhome market since 2001. Workhorse is the chassis of choice for many people because of it's solid 50,000 psi steel, diesel pusher like, frame rails and the OEMs have agreed with their customers by exclusively offering certain models only on Workhorse chassis.

What we have seen is that the F53 has tried to catch up by offering 22K of GVW, 22.5 inch tires, wider frame rails thereby lowering the engine placement, 5 speed transmission, increased engine performance, improved chassis stability devices and improved ride comfort.

What we therefore see is the greatest form of flattery, "emulation". The more you look into how the current F53 is configured the more you can see the standard features that you've been getting from Workhorse all long.

Make no mistake, the marketing folks over at Ford have been plainly stating that they now have more horsepower and torque than Workhorse, better chassis performance than Workhorse and generally they seem to be publicizing "Better than Workhorse" of course all of this ink is not yet proven.

What we see from Workhorse is that its RV chassis comprises the major part of their output and as such they dedicate a tremendous amount of energy, personnel and resources toward their RV product. I and others have seen that Ford continues to focus more energy on their core products, light trucks and cars. It's difficult to put yourself in the best position to support both the RV industry and a massive organization that if all doesn't go well folks will be loosing money in their portfolios.

Workhorse makes the best gas powered RV chassis product and the cream of the crop is the "new" W-24. The new W-24 takes Workhorse customers to the next level by providing a chassis that is clearly positioned to service those customers that have exceptional requirements for weight carrying capacity and not only does it carry the bacon, but it practically stops on a dime with the new quad-hydraulic 4 wheel 4 channel disk brake system.

The W24 customer can get an Arens shifter that gives them the feel of a diesel pusher by using push button shifting. A 50? wheel cut gives exceptional maneuverability and the now standard Bilstein shock absorbers coupled with the Detroit Steel Product's Stabil-Ride suspension yield a quality ride that can only be surpassed by a full air suspension.

The mainstay W-22 suspension that is in wide use today features many of the core performance products of the W-24 and both share equally impressive ride characteristics. Workhorse Service network continuously expands and improves. What you will often see is that the dealer that you purchased your motorhome from most often will service the Workhorse chassis. Making the customer's RV'ing experience a one-stop shopping process is important to Workhorse.

There are occasionally some service issues that blip up on the radar screen at times but what I've seen is that Workhorse listens to their customers and improves their product at every turn. In just 5 short years Workhorse went from being an unknown entity to the leading provider of Class 6 gas powered chassis. The performance of the company has been remarkable and going forward WCC will continue to innovate with it complete product line including the R-Series RDP and kit products like the "new" Stabil-Air suspension.
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Old 03-19-2005, 01:35 PM   #6
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Compare at what rpm the torque is developed at . . .
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Old 03-19-2005, 03:50 PM   #7
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According to the specs, the new v10 develops it max torque at 3250rpm 50rpm higher than the 8.1 v8, however the max hp comes in at 4750rpm and that's getting up there.

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Old 03-20-2005, 07:05 AM   #8
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There is some info on the new Ford Chassis here:

2006 F-Series Super Duty Class A
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Old 03-20-2005, 12:50 PM   #9
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Thanks Knut&Susan welcome aboard irv2 an thanks for your input.---"007"
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Old 03-20-2005, 06:53 PM   #10
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Your bias is showing, and that isn't exactly proper if you plan to be a moderator of a forum. The fact is that there would not be a Workhorse chassis if it had not been for the big step out in front that Ford took when they introduced the Triton V-10 motorhome chassis back in mid 1998. The Workhorse has had some really good features but it also has a major weakness in that it weighs so much more than the Ford chassis that many of the coaches in the 35' and up range have almost no CCC when built on the Workhorse. Motorhome magazine has reviewed several with that problem. An example was the Allegro 36' that has less than 600# of CCC when on the Workhorse and over 2300# for the exact same coach when on the Ford. That is a major weakness as an over loaded coach is not safe.

And now the Ford is out and even if Driver doesn't like it, this is a normal response to a competition situation, just as the existance of the Workhorse company due to Ford having become so superior to the GM morothome chassis.

It is a poor excuse for a moderator to show such excessive bias aginst one of the major suppliers in the industry. Of course Ford compares to the Workhorse. Just who do you think that Workhorse compares their chassis to, Dodge?
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Old 03-21-2005, 03:28 AM   #11
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Kirk,
Thanks for sharing the weight issue about WCC - I was wondering about their large GVW chassis, now it makes sense.
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:29 AM   #12
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ............Kirk:
The fact is that there would not be a Workhorse chassis if it had not been for the big step out in front that Ford took when they introduced the Triton V-10 motorhome chassis back in mid 1998. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That's very true, the F53 eclipsed the competition at that time who was running the early P series chassis. The Ford surpassed the GM in GVW, front track, CCC and just about blindsided the Chevrolet Division with their product. OEMs were now able to begin furnishing the buying public slide-outs. Sales were booming at Ford for their chassis right out of the starting gate. In most people's minds in the late 90s and early into the 2000s Ford was the "first thought" in most people's minds when they went shopping for a motorhome. Ford still leads the market in under 35 foot motorhome models especially in the entry level market where a lot of the OEMs position themselves. All in all Ford does a good job in their market and there's nothing wrong with the product that I can see.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">..it also has a major weakness in that it weighs so much more than the Ford chassis that many of the coaches in the 35' and up range have almost no CCC when built on the Workhorse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The weight of the coach is largely determined by the coach builder and neither Ford nor Workhorse have much to do about that. I will have to point out that the new 2006 F53 features a 7500 GAWF rating. I think that this is way below the ratings that are "really" needed in large gas powered coaches. I know for example that with my 37G it had a W-20 with a 7500 front axle. When the seats were occupied we weighed 50 pounds over the GAWR and our GVWR was 20,700 pounds. Just how the 22K - F53 positions itself in this market with a 7500 front axle seems clear to me that most anyone will admit that they're not bringing enough axle on their chassis.

My previous comments also extend to the rear axle where Ford brings to market a 13,500 pound rear axle and WCC brings a 14,500 standard axle.

One feature that is often overlooked are the brakes. WCC brings to its customers a 4 channel 4 wheel disk ABS system. Ford continues to go with a 3 channel setup.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Motorhome magazine has reviewed several with that problem. An example was the Allegro 36' that has less than 600# of CCC when on the Workhorse and over 2300# for the exact same coach when on the Ford. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>This is not only the sole example of this problem. We see low numbers on larger Mountain Aire gas motorhomes and others as well that have CCC ratings in the 600 pound range.

So how do "they" fix this issue, WCC steps up and brings to market a W-24 chassis that adds 2000 pounds (on-average) of CCC. Not only are the larger gas chassis exclusively built on the W24 but the CCC and GCWRs meet and exceed the requirement that most full timers would ever need in a gas powered coach.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That is a major weakness as an over loaded coach is not safe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree with you 100%. You will have to admit that neither Ford nor Workhorse build over weight coaches. I would not buy a coach from an OEM that I would overload because I carry a lot of junk now being a full-timer.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It is a poor excuse for a moderator to show such excessive bias against one of the major suppliers in the industry. Of course Ford compares to the Workhorse. Just who do you think that Workhorse compares their chassis to, Dodge? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I just re-read my entire post over 3 times just to make sure that I didn't say that. So just for the record, I didn't say that it didn't or doesn't compare. I don't believe that I have posted excessive "bias" because anyone can pick up a book or use any other reference and come up with the "same" data that I have. I just presented the facts as they are known.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this issue.
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Old 03-21-2005, 09:16 AM   #13
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Kirk,
I think Driver's response was one of a firm believer in the Workhorse platform and his willingness to share his reasoning with the original poster, rather that of a Adminstrator on the site. The post asked a question and Driver gave his opinion. But having said that, I kinda have to agree with you that I also think the Ford platform has alot to offer to the industry. Now, I think Ford has done some updates this year because of the pressure Workhorse has put on them. And yes, I wish Ford would have done these a couple of years ago before my chassis was built('02) Even without these newest updates in the form of the 5 speed tranny and revised V10, etc., I still think I have a decent chassis from Ford. At the time I tried this rig out and compared it to three different rigs all on Workhorse chassis', I preferred the handling I got from the Ford. Now I know Workhorse has made some improvements to that problem, but my point is that both Ford and Workhorse are trying to improve their market share and they both have benefits, but they both also have weakness'.
So like any other brand warfare, we all have our reasonings for what we like.
I'm fine with my Ford
Again, this is just my opinion, your mileage may vary!!
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Oh P.S., the reason that the voting is tilted more towards Workhorse than Ford, is because the Ford guys are too busy out driving their rigs and enjoying them than to answer the poll!!! Sorry had to "add" that!
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Old 03-21-2005, 10:04 AM   #14
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With all that everyone has said Ford still has low axel weight limitations on new power train. The Fords I owned could not carry the Newmar coachs that there chassis had to carry. I had no complaint with the power of three V-10's I had, just the match up of coach to chassis.
"The WH can carry the coach I have now."
The Ford chassis, I had to add leaf springs on one an air-lift bags on the other because they set to low over the tires, an one right rear duels would hit top of wheel well when rocked to that side.
If the coach Mfg's won't match up there coach to the weight limitations of chassis we will continue to have low ccc. The new Newmar 37' MH's should all have the W-24 chassis, two of them don't, in the KS lineup. I have weigh my KS-3740 an it could use the larger ccc.---"007"
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