Community Forums

azloafer · 12-16-2009, 12:47 PM

I have been researching various MH's in preparation for a trade. "recalls.gov" lists so many recalls that I'm left with looking at MH's with the least problems or at least things that can be fixed.

My first picks are the 2006 Monaco Diplomat or the 2006 Holiday Rambler Endeavor. They have an 8 bag and 8 shock system. BUT they have a recall that seems like it is doomed to destroy the engine. There is no recourse due to the bankruptcy.Here is an excerpt:

Summary:
ON CERTAIN 2006 (Monaco Diplomat and HR Endeavor) MOTOR HOMES BUILT WITH CUMMINS ISL CM850 DIESEL ENGINES, THE CONNECTING ROD CONTAINS A MACHINING DEFECT IN THE WRIST PIN BUSHING OF THE ROD THAT COULD CAUSE A SEIZURE OF THE PISTON PIN.

Consequence:
IF ALLOWED TO PROGRESS, THIS CAN LEAD TO ENGINE FAILURE WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF THE ROD RUPTURING THE LOCK CAVITY, OIL AND DEBRIS ON THE ROADWAY AND VEHICLE CRASH.

A further look revealed that there is no real fix offered, other than changing the engine at the owners expense. So, do you buy one of these two and just plan on using an extended warranty when the engine blows? So far my research has been very disappointing. I don't want what I have, but I'm afraid of the replacement with just as much or more problems.

Even considering the recall on the Diplomat and Endeavor, there must be a lot of them out there! What are the owners feelings and how are they handling an eventual engine failure? Any advice on the '06 Monaco or Endeavor would really be appreciated. If only a small percentage are bad I would buy and take my chances and use my extended warranty when the engine blows. Any help would really be appreciated. I have a lemon (my opinion) and I want to trade up. Would you pick one of these and take your chances??? Please give me your thoughts. I need all the help that I can get.

Route 66 · 12-16-2009, 12:56 PM

This is a Cummins issue, not a Monaco issue and several manufacturers had the ISL's in question.

I would not buy a MH with one of these engines.

When I ordered my Dutch Star to be built, I notified both the dealer and Newmar that I would not accept an engine with a serial number within the affected range, and my ISL was built after the affected range.

There were quite a few engines that self destructed initially, but we don't hear about it anymore.

There is no fix, but a Cummins recall installed a crank case over pressure indicator that is supposed to indicate impending self destruction so that you can shut the engine off before it's too late.

RustyJC · 12-16-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Cummins ISL CM850 Diesel Engine Equipment Recall
Recall Number: 07E033000
Owner Notification Date: July 20, 2007
Record Creation Date: June 8, 2007

Defect Description:
Certain isl cummins cm850 diesel engines produced for recreational vehicle applications between october 17, 2005, and april 18, 2006, with engine serial number range from 46543077 to 46603939. The connecting rod contains a machining defect in the wrist pin bushing of the rod that could cause seizure of the piston pin.

Defect Consequence:
If allowed to progress, this could lead to engine failure with the possibility of the rod rupturing the block cavity. Oil and debris on the roadway could result in a vehicle crash.

Corrective Action:
Each vehicle manufacturer will notify owners of vehicles that contain these engines about this defect. Cummins will conduct the remedy campaign and provide quarterly completion reports broken down by vehicle manufacturer; however the vehicle manufacturers will be responsible for the recall. Vehicles will be repaired at no cost to the owner. The recall began on July 20, 2007. Owners can contact either their vehicle manufacturer or cummins customer assistance center at 1-800-343-7357.

The Cummins engine carries its own warranty, right? At any rate, I'd call Cummins above to determine if the repairs (if required) have been made on the MH you're considering - to do this, you'll need the engine serial number, of course. Heck, the engine may have failed and been replaced.

Alternately, as Dirk suggests, you can check the serial number range above and avoid purchasing a MH with one of the suspect engines.

Rusty

azloafer · 12-16-2009, 01:27 PM

You must have obtained that notice from somewhere other than where I have been that I did not see it. Thanks for the info and especially the serial numbers. I really appreciate that.

RustyJC · 12-16-2009, 02:37 PM

You're quite welcome.

HERE is the NHTSA version of the recall.

Rusty

EngineerMike · 12-16-2009, 03:08 PM

AZ- that recall defect occurred in a very small percentage of the Cummins engines during that run. The Cummins "recall" consisted of adding a sensor to the crankcase and an ECM preprogramming to light a warning light on the dash in case of a sudden crankcase pressure surge (or something like that). According to Cummins personnel, IF the defect was present, it would present most likely within the first 5k miles, and almost certainly within the first 10k. They had never had an occurrence past 15k or so. If the defect presents, it lunches the engine, more or less, i.e. time for a new engine. For anybody who has the ruined engine, they (I'm pretty sure) get a new or factory reconditioned engine with the balance of the engine warranty most likely.

IIWMI'd find the moho you want to buy, regardless of this recall. Then if the serial# falls within the range- check to see if the recall is handled (call Cummins). Then see what if any accommodation on price is available. Or, you could place a call to Cummins in Coburg, OR, who detailed and delivered engines to Monaco and Country Coach, and ask to talk to their technical rep about the recall and make your decisions accordingly. Ask about stats to verify the above. IIRC, there were about 2000 coaches with such engines, maybe 900 Monacos. Coburg should have the numbers on the Monacos, and how many if any engine failures, etc. Cummins was very, very positive about the claim that after a certain # of miles you could say you were therefore out of the woods and didn't have the problem.

Good luck on finding a great deal on a great coach. Its certainly a buyers market. FYI- the engine serial# is on the upper right rear motor flange, facing upward. It can also be read using Cummins Insite software w/appropriate pigtail, and any competent dealer can supply the info. Also, the engine date will precede the coach Born-On date by about 4 months, so given the engine build dates in Rusty's post above, virtually all affected coaches will have build dates in early to middle 06 (and may be model year 07 rigs).

azloafer · 12-16-2009, 08:52 PM

One dealer has two 2006 Monaco Diplomats. One has 5,500 miles and the other has 13,000 miles. Both look to be in good shape. I gave the serial number info to the service department and they are checking the engines.

azloafer · 12-17-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azloafer

One dealer has two 2006 Monaco Diplomats. One has 5,500 miles and the other has 13,000 miles. Both look to be in good shape. I gave the serial number info to the service department and they are checking the engines.

The unit with 5,500 miles was sold as soon as it hit the lot. The one with 13,000 miles turned out to have one of the defective engines. I informed them that I would not accept it unless they took care of all three recall items. I got stung with the coach that I own and I won't take a chance like that again. This is a wholesale dealer and once you buy it and take it off the lot you are stuck with the problems. The asking price on the remaining unit is $130,000. The service department is checking to see if they will take care of the recalls.

I can't thank the people on this forum enough. I could have been stuck with a problem that I don't need. The coach that I own has several expensive recalls that are no longer being paid for by Monaco because of the bankruptcy. If I had known about the recalls, I would never have accepted it. That's why I am getting rid of it now. Why should I take a coach with defects even though the fix might be done at no cost? I don't need the hassle and wasted time with another lemon. Lesson learned. You have to know a lot about the coach that you might buy before you buy it. That's where this forum comes in.

azloafer · 12-17-2009, 08:38 PM

In another forum there is a section with 12 pages about the engine recall. One of the people posting said that they called Cummins and were told that the problem with the engine shows up in the first one thousand miles. They further added that if the engine has more than a thousand miles it is safe to assume that it is not one of the bad ones. They further claim that a Cummins tech said that less than 4% of the engines within the recall serial numbers actually fail. Sounds good but I wonder if I can assume that this is true. Today I wrote Cummins and asked for a detailed explanation re the engine recall. Are they really fixing engines at no cost or fixing them only after they go bad? In the other forum it was also claimed that if the engine reaches five years and then goes bad, the owner is out of luck. I asked a bunch of questions in my letter. I'll post the response from Cummins when I get it.

Jackm · 12-18-2009, 03:00 AM

That orphaned recall seems mild compared to the trailing arm problem with certain 2002, 2003, and 2004 Monacos. In this case, a supporting component of the chassis can fail with potentially serious consequences. Here's some information from an FMCA related website:

FMCA Community > Important Safety Problem: Monaco, Holiday Rambler & Safari Chassis

Jack

Route 66 · 12-18-2009, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Are they really fixing engines at no cost or fixing them only after they go bad?

As noted in other posts, the Cummins recall only added the crankcase over pressure sensor. They only replaced/repaired engines that failed.

In addition, as others have noted, the engines that failed did so early on. However, some of those failures were catastrophic with damage to the motorhome and toad.

hardy1000 · 12-18-2009, 06:44 AM

These guy's have a good inventory of used and repo's with low milage, Monaco's and HR's and have the best prices that I have found, they are great to deal with.

DeMartini RV Sales, Recreational vehicles (RVs), Holiday Rambler, Holiday Rambler Motorhomes, Monaco Motorhomes, Monaco Coach, Monaco Coach Corporation, Used Diesel Pusher, Used diesel, Endeavor, Scepter,** Imperial, Dynasty,* Windsor, Camelot, Navig

azloafer · 12-18-2009, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardy1000

These guy's have a good inventory of used and repo's with low milage, Monaco's and HR's and have the best prices that I have found, they are great to deal with.

DeMartini RV Sales, Recreational vehicles (RVs), Holiday Rambler, Holiday Rambler Motorhomes, Monaco Motorhomes, Monaco Coach, Monaco Coach Corporation, Used Diesel Pusher, Used diesel, Endeavor, Scepter,** Imperial, Dynasty,* Windsor, Camelot, Navig

Is your coach engine serial number outside of the recall numbers? Certain '07 Diplomats were under the same recall as the '06's that I am looking at. Engine serial number range from 46543077 to 46603939.

J Walker · 12-18-2009, 08:45 AM

Good job of researching the ISL wrist pin problem! If I found the serial number matched the recall I would not buy it regardless of what Cummins says. There is no way to know enough to be certain that it won't fail after a few thousand miles. I have the ISB 53 block which is similar in that Cummins says that only a few percent crack. I am fine after 60,000 miles but there is that little cloud hanging there. The 53 block problem is due to the casting being too thin and leading to cracking and coolant leaking. A friend with the same engine and year did crack his block. Driving habits might be different but I would feel better if the issue were not there.