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Old 11-07-2018, 03:21 PM   #1
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Wouldn't it be cheaper to build them right

I was just wondering, with the cost of warranty repairs you would think that that RV manufacturers would want to build them right the first time? I obviously don't have the means to do a cost analysis, but I'm assuming that it's still cheaper for the RV makers to just crank em out then to build them right the first time. It seems to me that if more RV manufacturers adhered to better quality the competition would force the issue, kinda like the US auto industry when the Japanese cars were forcing American cars to up their quality standards. I guess if everybody's quality is sub-par then where is the incentive to change? I know some are better than others, but for the most part they all could do a much better job. Yes this is somewhat rhetorical, but I though it was some food for thought. Probably something that every RV owner has pondered at some point, unless of course you have won the RV lottery.
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Old 11-07-2018, 03:31 PM   #2
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Makes me more thankful every day for the quality of our 2002 Monaco Windsor! They took pride in their work back then!
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Old 11-07-2018, 03:48 PM   #3
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Makes me more thankful every day for the quality of our 2002 Monaco Windsor! They took pride in their work back then!
Yes, I've heard those are really reliable coaches.
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Old 11-07-2018, 04:03 PM   #4
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Makes me more thankful every day for the quality of our 2002 Monaco Windsor! They took pride in their work back then!
I second that with out unit 2000 Featherlite

I think its all about throwing them together as fast as they can to get the rvs out the door like most things built today

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Old 11-07-2018, 04:08 PM   #5
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From what I recall back when I was getting training about Deming an the Baldridge Award we were told about papers to that effect. That was in the 1980's so I probably forgot some of that. ;-)

What I find interesting is the nature of what we are talking about and the length of the lists some folks have. I don't think there is an RV out there that is build rigid enough not to have some movement from the temperature swings and vibration loads they are subject to. If they were you would be looking at either very expensive or very heavy materials and techniques. Few folks are willing to pay for a well built unit when their neighbor pays a dollar less for junk.

When I see someone who complains about a broken refrigerator I see a fixable problem that should have been caught at the PDI and should be fixable in a relatively short time. When I see "we had 120 things on our punch list" I lose all sympathy because we are down to paint matches or loose screws or any number of issues that they can either easily fix themselves or are likely to get skipped over while dealers work on more significant problems. The dealers and the factory would go broke fixing all that assuming they could meet the aesthetic requirements being asserted.
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Old 11-07-2018, 04:08 PM   #6
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No money for the after market warranty if a RV was built to never need repairs. It’s just like that 4 down you tow no repairs no replace!
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Old 11-07-2018, 04:16 PM   #7
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One would think it would be cost effective to do so.
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Old 11-07-2018, 04:25 PM   #8
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There is a very simple way to force manufacturers to improve quality. Simply petition your state representatives to include RV's under state lemon laws. After the manufacturers are forced to buy back units, quality will improve very quickly. The only way to get a manufacturers attention is to affect their bottom line.

State lemon laws actually had more affect on domestic auto quality than the influx of Asian imports.
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Old 11-07-2018, 04:47 PM   #9
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Major problems in RV building that I can see are number of models, low volume per model (compared to auto), higher skill and attention required by those building, more detailed engineering in some cases, better suppliers.


Slowing production and adding more inspection at each step could help some but also would raise labor content quite a bit. I can pretty much assure you no company wants to send out a defective product but many will if they think/know they can skate by and make a profit.


Engineering to fool proof assembly and using CNC where they can in part production are both things that can help with quality. You do see some of them doing at least some of this.


Best thing I know we can do is make their life hard by demanding things be correct at delivery and after some miles get on the coach. Some problems will only show after some use. Too many take dealers word for things/fixes at delivery and a lot of folks really don't use their RV enough to find problems quickly.



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Old 11-07-2018, 05:06 PM   #10
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I don't believe it would cost less (to build them like we want).
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Old 11-07-2018, 05:09 PM   #11
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[MOD EDIT]

Taking a tour of one of the rv factories will really open your eyes. I went on one that was building high end 5th wheels. The workers ran to get things, ran to the bathroom, etc. When working on a roof expensive air tools were thrown from one end to the other to save time.

These people are incentivized for top production not for quality construction. You stop to pick up a screw or something and you won't be working long. There was a quality control stop which consisted of a few minute stop. Only enough to test things like lights, microwave, make sure there was a toilet in the bathroom etc.

Anyone is capable of quality work if given time and support.
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Old 11-07-2018, 05:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothermark View Post
From what I recall back when I was getting training about Deming an the Baldridge Award we were told about papers to that effect. That was in the 1980's so I probably forgot some of that. ;-)

What I find interesting is the nature of what we are talking about and the length of the lists some folks have. I don't think there is an RV out there that is build rigid enough not to have some movement from the temperature swings and vibration loads they are subject to. If they were you would be looking at either very expensive or very heavy materials and techniques. Few folks are willing to pay for a well built unit when their neighbor pays a dollar less for junk.

When I see someone who complains about a broken refrigerator I see a fixable problem that should have been caught at the PDI and should be fixable in a relatively short time. When I see "we had 120 things on our punch list" I lose all sympathy because we are down to paint matches or loose screws or any number of issues that they can either easily fix themselves or are likely to get skipped over while dealers work on more significant problems. The dealers and the factory would go broke fixing all that assuming they could meet the aesthetic requirements being asserted.
Sorry - but I was in charge of final testing at a biomedical instrument company. A small scratch on a stainless steel plate would halt a shipment.

A refrigerator that doesn't work is a major failure and should have been caught by the manufacturer. And, should have been caught by the dealer's incoming inspection BEFORE the customer (with the money and high expectations) shows up to see their new toy.

I say SHAME on the industry that allows their customer to see a new rig that has a broken appliance, misaligned trim, partially filled fuel tank, fingerprints on windows or any other minor blemish.

Acceptance of poor workmanship and lack of seller pride is what guarantees the next rig out the door will be WORSE.

As one poster said - Get your state to add RV's to their lemon laws.

And, SHAME on us for driving off the lot with a promise rather than a repair.
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Old 11-07-2018, 07:23 PM   #13
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I recently went on a factory tour. After the initial meeting and the passing out of safety gear we were herded to the tour starting position. While we were waiting for a few stragglers, I turned my attention to a 5 S type quality board. I quickly zeroed in on the $ cost of warranty repairs the builder was paying per month. In just a couple months you could have purchased one of their top of the line units with change left over for a Beemer. I wanted to ask the tour guide about the charts but then we were off and seeing things I wish I could un-see.
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Old 11-07-2018, 07:41 PM   #14
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The RV industry is just like any vehicle manufacture. It all boils down to the price a customer is willing to pay. If you want a high quality hand built low volume made RV, the price will definitely be beyond what most consumers would be willing to pay.
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