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Old 01-16-2014, 09:36 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Tomtall View Post
And I'm thinking to myself why not use nitrogen instead of air? So I do a search on the net and come across this article by "Tire Rack" one of the largest seller of tires and was surprised at their report on this cure all toted by a lot of tire shops. Note what they say half way thru the report about ambiant temperature change and nitrogen.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...jsp?techid=191
Don't forget TireRack is talking about max handling performance where +/- 1 psi can make a difference in cornering.

I have had N2 available when I was racing but never bothered to inflate tow vehicles with it due to cost issues as there was nothing to be gained in normal every day driving use.

RV Tire Safety: Inflate with Nitrogen and there will be MAGIC
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:39 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Sorry but "Cold inflation" does not mean you adjust for some chem lab standard. For tires "COLD" means the tire is at ambient air temperature. Basically this means not driven on for at least three hours (some say two hours) and no part of the tire in direct sunlight for same time.
You totally missed the point in an effort to argue.

The Tire Pressure Temp Chart Shows How Ambient temp Affects Cold Tire Pressure.

So if you never move your coach trailer car what ever You can use this Chart to determine what to expect from the gauge given the Ambient temp.

65 Degrees F is considered Standard Cold Tire Pressure Ambient.

If you have determined using the Load Pressure chart that you should run 90 PSI at 65 Degrees Ambient Cold tire Pressure you can Use the Temp Chart to Set your tire Pressures for Higher Or Lower Ambient Temps.

If it is Zero outside first thing in the morning you SHOULD NOT expect to see 90 PSI on the Gauge.

Reading this Thread the Question was What Temp should I start with if Ambient temps are Low or High and should I be adjusting my tire pressures as I travel from Cold to warm or warm to cold climates.

The Answer is Right Here, Use the tools Provided.

Ted.
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:41 AM   #59
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JR I am with you, although not as emphatically as you, regarding using nitrogen in rv tires, it's generally overkill. There is one point, however, that I would offer for your consideration. Nitrogen systems usually deliver DRY gas while compressed air is often laden with water vapor which can (not will) negatively effect the inside of the tie and wheel. I live in a very humid climate so I use a water separator and a coalescing filter on my compressor. This too is probably overkill but it makes me feel better!
Steve

Alternate form of overkill
RV Tire Safety: How to get dry air for your tires

A quick check if you have wet air in the tire. Next time you have access to plenty of air pull the valve core and let out about 10% of your pressure. If you see water spitting out you may have excess moisture in the tire.
Don't let too much air out or you could de-seat the tire bead which is un-safe.
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:45 AM   #60
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I have a question about tires. While traveling down the highway I notice a lot of alligators I think they call them. I also notice a lot of them seem to have a lot of tread left. Why do so many tires go bad, wrong air pressure, objects in the road? Or?????


Here are a number of posts on why tires fail.
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:53 AM   #61
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I just have to do this....How often do you calibrate (certify) your test gauge that you use to set your tire pressures? What type of device ... dial gauge...pencil type...electronic? I think you will find more variation in gauge types than actual change due to ambient temp
I compare my "daily" gauge with my "master" once a month or if I see a sudden inexplicable change in tire readings.
I have a few posts on gauge accuracy with some additional information on the results of numerous gauge tests I have conducted.
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:03 AM   #62
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Don't believe the hype about nitrogen! That is a huge crock of BS! I am a physicist and nitrogen in your tires does not change the laws of physics.

Atomic size? What a farce!

Pressure changes with temperature on any gas including good old fashioned AIR according to the ideal gas law.

There is way too much anal retentiveness about tire pressures on this forum. Use common sense folks and all will be well!!!

Here's is a link to a study that is very interesting if you have time to read and are into numbers!http://www.nitrofill.com/documents/I...807.pdfAnother study below!Parker posts results of nitrogen tire inflation trialBy CCJ Staff Drexan Corp. recently conducted a double blind study measuring the effects of nitrogen tire inflation on tire life and fuel efficiency in a long-haul trucking fleet. Performance of nitrogen-filled tires was measured against performance of air-filled tires with and without a maintenance program. Parker Hannifin, based in Haverhill, Mass., provided the nitrogen generator used during this study. The results of this analysis, according to Parker, recently were presented at the Clemson Tire Conference:ē When compared to historical data, nitrogen tire inflation provides a 6.1 percent improvement in fuel efficiency when compared to a fleet with no tire pressure maintenance program;ē When compared to historical data and an in-trial control, nitrogen tire inflation provides a 3.3 percent improvement in fuel efficiency when compared to a fleet using air inflation and a tire pressure maintenance program; andē When compared to the in-trial air control, nitrogen-filled tires provided an average tread life improvement of 86 percent when compared to a fleet using air inflation and a tire pressure maintenance program. The study, Parker says, infers that casing life improves, increasing retreadability, and tire failures decrease. The economic implications of nitrogen tire inflation also were impressive, according to the company:ē Saved 110,000 gallons of diesel and U.S. $285,000 over the nine-month period;ē The value of the extended tire life was not monetized, but could be calculated easily for any fleet that knows their cost/mile for tires; andē Greenhouse gas emissions were reduced, allowing them to be exchanged for revenue on carbon trading sites. Parker says the study was conducted over a nine-month period in 2006 using a fleet comprising 70 long-haul tractors and 117 trailers, providing 1988 wheel positions. It consisted of 6.1 million tractor miles and 110 million tread miles, and it covered the coldest and hottest months of the year to minimize climate variances, according to the company; the analysis isolated inflation gas as the primary basis for any change in the mean.
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:25 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by GULFSTREAM37 View Post

The Chart is the best piece of information in this whole Thread.
I still don't see the usefulness of the chart for setting my CIP's in the early morning ambient temps where I happen to be parked at the time, be it Alaska or Florida.

If I am driving from warm or hot climates to cold frigid temps I will adjust my CIP's at least once or maybe twice on a long trip to prevent from running under-inflated tires. If driving the other direction, cold to hot climates I will probably adjust at least once just for something to do but I worry less because my pressures are going up and not down.

I have plenty of safety factor on the high side however, the fastest way to destroy a tire and possibly your RV is to run your tires under-inflated.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:35 AM   #64
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I still don't see the usefulness of the chart for setting my CIP's in the early morning ambient temps where I happen to be parked at the time, be it Alaska or Florida.

If I am driving from warm or hot climates to cold frigid temps I will adjust my CIP's at least once or maybe twice on a long trip to prevent from running under-inflated tires. If driving the other direction, cold to hot climates I will probably adjust at least once just for something to do but I worry less because my pressures are going up and not down.

I have plenty of safety factor on the high side however, the fastest way to destroy a tire and possibly your RV is to run your tires under-inflated.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
Simple If Standard Cold Tire Pressure is measured at 65 Degrees F you then use the chart to know what to expect from your Gauge based on Current Ambient Temps.

I just completed a 3000 mile trip from CT to Florida and back

When I left CT it was 26 Degrees when I arrived in Florida it was 80 Degrees When I arrived home it was 7 Degrees.

Never once did I need to adjust my Pressure.

On The road My tire Pressure runs 105 in the front and 115 in the rear and does not waiver more than + or - 10 PSI based on Ambient temps changes.

At the Beginning of my Trip my Pressure monitors read 85 psi FRT 95 Rear, when I started the coach by the time I got out of my neighborhood tire Pressures return to normal.

If I had added Air I would have had to take it back out on the road.

Don't Chase Tire Pressure, because Ambient temps do affect the Cold Tire Pressure.

If you use the Chart you won't be chasing it and you will be fine.

Ted.
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:40 AM   #65
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This is good stuff.

So to help me understand. For example my tires should be at 110 "cold". So I can presume that is based on a 65 degree standard? So if I go check my tires in the morning and it's 85 degrees out, I should make sure the tires are at 115? (The number on the chart)
As long as the Ambient temp is consistent for a couple hours Yes.

If it is cold in the morning and the temp suddenly rises 30 degrees you must wait for the tires to catch up or measure the Tire Temp.

It takes a while for temps to stabilize when we have wild temp fluctuations.

Ted.
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:58 AM   #66
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Tomtall,

A 78% Nitrogen mix works well for most of us.
jauguston
.......and its free!
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Old 01-17-2014, 09:41 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by GULFSTREAM37 View Post
You totally missed the point in an effort to argue.

The Tire Pressure Temp Chart Shows How Ambient temp Affects Cold Tire Pressure.

So if you never move your coach trailer car what ever You can use this Chart to determine what to expect from the gauge given the Ambient temp.

65 Degrees F is considered Standard Cold Tire Pressure Ambient.

If you have determined using the Load Pressure chart that you should run 90 PSI at 65 Degrees Ambient Cold tire Pressure you can Use the Temp Chart to Set your tire Pressures for Higher Or Lower Ambient Temps.

If it is Zero outside first thing in the morning you SHOULD NOT expect to see 90 PSI on the Gauge.

Reading this Thread the Question was What Temp should I start with if Ambient temps are Low or High and should I be adjusting my tire pressures as I travel from Cold to warm or warm to cold climates.

The Answer is Right Here, Use the tools Provided.

Ted.
My reaction is on the fat printed in the quote.

Mayby the cold tire pressure advice is given for 18dgrC/65dgrF but it is all to give the tire a deflection that dont give damage to it by the constant bending of the rubber by driving. So its best to take care that the advice pressure is at the ambiŽnt temperature. So if its 30 degrees outside you have to measure the adviced pressure. then its yust what ambiŽnt temperatures you come by in your use. If you live at the north pole and the adviced presssure is 90 psi for your vehicle , then it has to be that 90 psi at freesing cold so -20 degr C/ about 20dgr F ??.
That its higher at for instance 65 degrees only gives extra savety.
The other way around , if you only drive the vehicle at say 80 dgr F because you live in warm suroundings and never gets colder, the 90 psi can be at that temperature.
So the advice pressure must be in the coldest ambiŽnt temperature you ever come by .
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:05 AM   #68
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Here's a chart that shows how pressure changes with temperature. If you like to keep your tire pressure at a specific level, you'd have to calculate the equivalent if the temperature is above or below the base (this chart uses 65 degrees).

What is meant be 'recommended CIP' ?
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:14 AM   #69
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You will find the truckers are using retreads on their TRAILERS.
Nope, we ran them on everything but the steering axle. Caps come off for many reasons, but mostly I think from overheating from low pressure.
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:25 AM   #70
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You totally missed the point in an effort to argue.
To argue is not my intent

The Tire Pressure Temp Chart Shows How Ambient temp Affects Cold Tire Pressure. I agree, the chart shows how temperature affects tire pressure when ambient temperature changes

So if you never move your coach trailer car what ever You can use this Chart to determine what to expect from the gauge given the Ambient temp.I agree,

65 Degrees F is considered Standard Cold Tire Pressure Ambient.
I do not agree. Can you provide a link to documentation from a tire manufacturer or RMA or TRA to support the claim of 65F being a "standard"?

If you have determined using the Load Pressure chart that you should run 90 PSI at 65 Degrees Ambient Cold tire Pressure you can Use the Temp Chart to Set your tire Pressures for Higher Or Lower Ambient Temps. OK but why do the calculations? It is easier to just set your pressure before driving when the tire is at the current air ambient except for very unusual circumstances such as a travel day with an expected ambient CHANGE of say 50 or 60 degrees F or more which would change the cold inflation pressure by about 5 or 6%

If it is Zero outside first thing in the morning you SHOULD NOT expect to see 90 PSI on the Gauge. Unless it was zero ambient when you set the tire pressure

Reading this Thread the Question was What Temp should I start with if Ambient temps are Low or High and should I be adjusting my tire pressures as I travel from Cold to warm or warm to cold climates.
The Answer is Right Here, Use the tools Provided. Agree use your TPMS and hand pressure gauge to set and confirm your pressure.

Ted.
Tire pressure should be set when the tire is at air ambient expected for the day of travel. If you check the tire pressure before the tires are in the sun on each day of travel (easy to do with your TPMS to confirm no significant change in pressure), I think you will find that your tire pressure will not change by more than a few% each day unless you have seen a very large ambient temperature change (50F or more).
While the data in SEETHEUSA's chart appears correct, I see no reason to get so wrapped up in tire pressure settings that you need to do calculations each morning. Its much easier to simply use a good gauge and confirm the pressure is equal or higher (5% to 10%) than the minimum needed to carry the actual load on the most loaded tire on that axle when you check the pressure each travel day.
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