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Old 06-25-2015, 11:06 PM   #1
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Wrong engine

Any opinions?

I bought a new 2010 coach 40 foot DP in 2010, I was very disappointed in the engine performance since the day I bought it. I accepted this as how a 40 foot coach performed. The spec sheet, the sales brochure
and NADA list the only engine size, in this coach as an ISB 6.7L engine.

Four and a half years later (last Monday) I had engine head gasket failure and had to have the coached towed to a shop. The shop advised me I do not have an ISB 6.7L engine, in fact I have an ISB 5.9L engine. The engine sticker indicates the engine as an ISB, without an engine size.

The ISB 5.9L engine was not even an option for this size of coach, the Sales brochure only indicates the 6.7L. I checked NADA (National Auto Dealers Association) guide and it only lists a 6.7L engine, no other engine was listed. The sales contract I have indicates the engine as an ISB 6.7L.

What to do?
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Old 06-25-2015, 11:12 PM   #2
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Call Fleetwood.
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Old 06-25-2015, 11:49 PM   #3
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In addition to calling Fleetwood, you might prepare yourself to answer certain questions during whatever legal proceeding you initiate. Did you sign this sale document 4 years ago wherein you have ascertained that everything about the coach is correct according to your inspection? Where did you have the several routine maintenance functions performed over the past 4.5 years? Did anyone during the maintenance checks point out that your coach has the wrong engine? Did you, at any time during your new coach warranty period, raise the issue of very sluggish performance on your new coach?






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Old 06-26-2015, 12:33 AM   #4
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According from CUMMINS's site, the 6,7L ISB 350 HP replaced the 5,9L ISB in 2007,5 ! http://cumminshub.com/67.html
BTW, on your valve cover, those it mention Turbo 6,7 L CUMMINS ?

From what I've read on the Internet, the 2010 Discovery had a 350 HP ISB CUMMINS engine, no mention of either 5,9 or 6,7.
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Old 06-26-2015, 01:23 AM   #5
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I hear what you are saying JFXG, I did not think the coach was "sluggish", I just thought it was lacking in performance.

This was my first DP, they (the dealership) did a great job with a "walk around" the coach. But where do you open the hood to look at the engine? it was all trust. All the documentation on the coach, sales contract, Fleetwood flyers stated ISB 6.7L.

There's a 350 HP emblem affixed to the back of the coach. The ISB 5.9L never produced that much HP. According to the shop it is at now, the 5.9 only produced 320HP and that is documented.

I'm sitting in a motel room 350 miles away from home just fuming over this. I'm taking full responsibilty for the head gasket failure.

I was on a two lane highway with no shoulder when I blew a raditator hose, I limped it two miles to clear the only southbound lane of travel, where I still stopped in a driving lane but there was now a passing lane for the traffic to go around me.

Last year Pacific Cummins replaced the turbo and ,in my opinion, did not route a hose properly and it was rubbing against the altanator pully. rubbed a hole in the cooling line and I lost all the coolant.

This coach has been in and out of the shop so much with different engine problems (two different oil leaks, one turbo failure, one transmission leak) I now believe it is due to the fact that it had the wrong engine installed. A 5.9 was never meant to be in a 40 foot coach.

And now I can't even be sure it has a Allison 3000MH tranny.

P.S. How did an engine discontinued in 2007.5 end up in a 2010 coach?
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Old 06-26-2015, 01:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jth camper View Post
....
P.S. How did an engine discontinued in 2007.5 end up in a 2010 coach?
Have you been able to prove that it's a 5.9L? Did you purchase the coach used?

Did you look up the engine's serial number?

Or, are you just taking the word of the technician who might only have 5.9L parts in stock, and wants to desperately unload them,(being that the engine has been discontinued), even though you very likely do have the 6.7L.
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Old 06-26-2015, 06:31 AM   #7
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wrong engine

If you want good solid info on your engine, get the serial number and the cpl number,call Cummin's with that info, they can tell you what you have.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:38 AM   #8
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If you want good solid info on your engine, get the serial number and the cpl number,call Cummin's with that info, they can tell you what you have.
This is the place to start. You want to get your information all correct, and then go from there. It is very seldom that I suggest legal action, but this may be one of those deals that ends up having to go there. But be sure you know what you want done clearly. Do you want the engine replaced? And trans too if that is not correct? Do you want to trade and be offered a good deal for the turn around...or a buy out?

Also make sure that there is nothing that you signed that shows 5.9 anywhere, as that will be a deal breaker. I really don't think that a walk around could be expected for all people to reveal a hidden difference. The lack of perfomance AND the maintenance issues you have had should be considerations. This is a difficult one to solve and may get a bit messy IMO.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:45 AM   #9
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You might be able to find out more about your engine from here.
https://quickserve.cummins.com/
It is free to sign up and just enter your serial number.
I use this site all the time for parts and service information.


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Old 06-26-2015, 09:12 AM   #10
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Much depends on the details here, the specific words in the contract, decals displayed on the coach, etc. If it was formally represented to be a 350 hp ISB 6.7L engine, and is not, you have a clear case for some sort of redress. If you only expected it to be a 6.7L based on a brochure or sales talk, maybe not.

The words in the sales brochure mean little, since the manufacturer "reserves the right to change specifications without notice", but the sales contract and the actual decals affixed to the coach have real significance. Note that it is common practice to build a coach with the chassis on-hand, and a 2010 coach may be on a 2009 chassis, or maybe even a 2008. However, either of those chassis would also have had the ISB 6.7L engine. Not sure where they could have come up with a chassis equipped with the 5.9L ISB. By the way, determine if your chassis is a Freightliner or a Spartan. 2010 Discoverys were mostly made on a Spartan chassis, but a few might be Freightliners.

The most powerful 5.9L ISB was 325 hp and was produced in 2007.

You need to verify, both with another expert opinion on the actual installed engine, and an inquiry to Fleetwood, using the Fleetwood ID Number (FIN) to identify the actual equipment, and to Cummins with the ESN (Engine Serial Number). Don't rant, just ask that they provide you with information as to what the engine is. Note who you spoke with and the date & time. Also take pictures of any coach decals showing engine model or horsepower, and of the actual engine.
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Old 06-26-2015, 09:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spk64 View Post
You might be able to find out more about your engine from here.
https://quickserve.cummins.com/
It is free to sign up and just enter your serial number.
I use this site all the time for parts and service information.


Steve

The advise you have gotten to contact Cummins, Fleetwood or the chassis manufacturer, is the correct way to go. You're getting yourself wrapped around the axle and it may be for no reason.

It sounds like you are not at a major Cummins distributor but at an independent truck shop. These guys are not the most accurate source of info on the planet.

A call to Cummins or Freightliner/Spartan with the appropriate numbers will solve the issue.


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Old 06-26-2015, 09:54 AM   #12
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Thanks for all the good info.

I contacted Pacific Cummins, they replaced the turbo last Sept, and they verified my coach has a 5.9L engine.

As far as the granny goes, it is a 6 speed. Does that mean it is an Allison 3000MH? Or could it still be the 2000MH?

I do not have my sales contract in front of me, but I distinctly remember reading ISB 6.7L. I read and re-read the engine size because I was so disappointed by how big of a "dog" it was in the hills.

I had the ISB 6.7L in the 2008 Dodge Ram dually I traded in for this coach. The Ram with the largest Lance camper, pulling my trailer I was at a total weight of 19500 pounds. My coach without the trailer is 22000 Lbs.
I could't believe that 2500 Lbs could make such a difference in going up the Grapevine near my house. The ram, fully loaded, would pull that hill at 55 mph no problem. My coach empty was at 25 mph.

I looked at the top of the engine when I had to replace that cooling hose. It did not have the 6.7L markings on the cable cover.

Bottom line is I love my floor plan, I just want the 6.7L engine I bought and paid for.

I feel I should not have any out of pocket exspence for their mistake.

I do not want a "super deal" on a new coach. I have this one over half paid off lol. And if I was to take an offer like that I lose all around. I'm paying sales tax, registration all the other associated fees. I can't afford that and that is just wrong.

Thanks again and sorry for venting.
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Old 06-26-2015, 10:03 AM   #13
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jth camper. Are you on a Spartan or Freightliner?
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Old 06-26-2015, 11:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normandlegra View Post
According from CUMMINS's site, the 6,7L ISB 350 HP replaced the 5,9L ISB in 2007,5 ! 6.7L Cummins Turbodiesel Specs
The last time a Discovery used a ISB 5.9L Cummins engine was the 2000 year model.
With the 2001.5 through 2007 the Cat 7.2L was used
2008 to 2010 the ISB 6.7L
2011-2012 ISC 8.3L
2013-2015 ISL 9L
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