Considering Class B Downsize

[nooksack]

We are considering downsizing to a Class B after 50 years of camping and RVing (28 years tents & popups, 5 years 23' Class A, 17 years full-timing in 40' 5th wheel & 39' diesel pusher). Age and situation suggests a new path with travel now being long weekends and longer vacation types of travel. I believe this forum probably has some good comments to help me consider such a change. Please comment on the following:

1. If you had a major downsize, was it too drastic, confining, complaints?
2. Is there adequate space for necessities?
3. Do you find rear bed setup/knockdown changes as annoying?
4. Is your fridge 3 cf, is it adequate? Some now show 5 cf fridges.
5. How about the different chassis -
- Sprinter diesel comments, is mileage around 20 plus mpg?
- Chev or Ford, is mileage around 14-15? Be truthful, please!
- Where do you go for sprinter chassis or mercedes diesel problems?
6. Comments on reliability, rig problems? All RV's have problems from time to time, you won't scare me.
7. Do any of you have setup for satellite TV?
8. Are there any 110V outlets inside to use when plugged in to power?
9. Comment if you have suggestions for specific features to look for.

Thanks for any help you can send our way!

[Bris]

Originally Posted by nooksack

We are considering downsizing to a Class B after 50 years of camping and RVing (28 years tents & popups, 5 years 23' Class A, 17 years full-timing in 40' 5th wheel & 39' diesel pusher). Age and situation suggests a new path with travel now being long weekends and longer vacation types of travel. I believe this forum probably has some good comments to help me consider such a change. Please comment on the following:

1. If you had a major downsize, was it too drastic, confining, complaints?
2. Is there adequate space for necessities?
3. Do you find rear bed setup/knockdown changes as annoying?
4. Is your fridge 3 cf, is it adequate? Some now show 5 cf fridges.
5. How about the different chassis -
- Sprinter diesel comments, is mileage around 20 plus mpg?
- Chev or Ford, is mileage around 14-15? Be truthful, please!
- Where do you go for sprinter chassis or mercedes diesel problems?
6. Comments on reliability, rig problems? All RV's have problems from time to time, you won't scare me.
7. Do any of you have setup for satellite TV?
8. Are there any 110V outlets inside to use when plugged in to power?
9. Comment if you have suggestions for specific features to look for.

Thanks for any help you can send our way!

I went from a 40 ft Monaco dynasty to a 22 ft sprinter it did take
Did take some time to get use it ,had to up grade to our specs
Weight issue was the deciding factor for us.

[RSchleder]

We also downsized within the last couple of weeks. We sold our 38' Allegro Bus that we bought new in 2005 and purchased a 2012 Winnebago ERA class B. We have owned 10 RV's in the past 25 years, all the way from a teardrop trailer, Jayco popup, pickup topper, a 13' Scamp and 3 diesel Class A pushers.
We have not had an opportunity to take a trip yet, however, based on our experience, we realize that things will need to change with the new style of vehicle that we now own. One thing we have is a small. removable POD type 2 wheel trailer that will hold a lot of items that we will pull behind the ERA. When we arrive at each campsite, we'll drop the little trailer and use the ERA for daily transportation. The bottom line is, we wanted to downsize so we DID, we will make it work by adjusting to the class B and look forward to many years of great travel and camping fun! Below are pic's of out new 2012 ERA!

2012 ERA pictures by RSchleder - Photobucket

[Bris]

Originally Posted by RSchleder

We also downsized within the last couple of weeks. We sold our 38' Allegro Bus that we bought new in 2005 and purchased a 2012 Winnebago ERA class B. We have owned 10 RV's in the past 25 years, all the way from a teardrop trailer, Jayco popup, pickup topper, a 13' Scamp and 3 diesel Class A pushers.
We have not had an opportunity to take a trip yet, however, based on our experience, we realize that things will need to change with the new style of vehicle that we now own. One thing we have is a small. removable POD type 2 wheel trailer that will hold a lot of items that we will pull behind the ERA. When we arrive at each campsite, we'll drop the little trailer and use the ERA for daily transportation. The bottom line is, we wanted to downsize so we DID, we will make it work by adjusting to the class B and look forward to many years of great travel and camping fun! Below are pic's of out new 2012 ERA!

2012 ERA pictures by RSchleder - Photobucket

Great looking pic that ERA is a great choice if and when you have have it service at a sprinter dealer
Have the technician explain the safety features you will be surprised.
Also have you look in a http://www.upscaleauto.com/stowaway2.htm rather tan a traier.
Happy many mile to you
Ron

[goreds2]

Originally Posted by nooksack

We are considering downsizing to a Class B after 50 years of camping and RVing (28 years tents & popups, 5 years 23' Class A, 17 years full-timing in 40' 5th wheel & 39' diesel pusher). Age and situation suggests a new path with travel now being long weekends and longer vacation types of travel. I believe this forum probably has some good comments to help me consider such a change. Please comment on the following:

1. If you had a major downsize, was it too drastic, confining, complaints?
2. Is there adequate space for necessities?
3. Do you find rear bed setup/knockdown changes as annoying?
4. Is your fridge 3 cf, is it adequate? Some now show 5 cf fridges.
5. How about the different chassis -
- Sprinter diesel comments, is mileage around 20 plus mpg?
- Chev or Ford, is mileage around 14-15? Be truthful, please!
- Where do you go for sprinter chassis or mercedes diesel problems?
6. Comments on reliability, rig problems? All RV's have problems from time to time, you won't scare me.
7. Do any of you have setup for satellite TV?
8. Are there any 110V outlets inside to use when plugged in to power?
9. Comment if you have suggestions for specific features to look for.

Thanks for any help you can send our way!

Did you end up getting a B?

[cargovan]

You may not call it a B-class, but the van I'm working on right now, is small even for one person. A regular B-class is big enough depending on your needs, certainly if you like to live outside. Getting older, I see no need for a lot of 'stuff'. Life can be simple.

Van

[nooksack]

I started this thread as we began to consider downsizing to a Class B. Mr. R Schleder wrote that he downsized to an 2012 ERA earlier this year. Yesterday we signed on to a 2012 ERA that is a dead ringer for his. We pick it up April 23rd. We are also having installed an Auto-Sat fold down Direct TV antennae, as well as the cabinet behind the driver. I have also ordered a cabinet for behind the passenger seat. Thus we can use it with 4 seats with the grandkids, or remove the seats for more storage on longer excursions by ourselves. My better half is sad to lose the amenities of our Allegro Open Road 32BA, but I want to explore backroads and tight places unavailable to the bigger rigs. We look forward to years of using this rig. 20 mpg diesel beats 7-1/2 mpg gas as well. Thanks for all your comments. We were also considering the Pleasure Way TS. While it had a much better bathroom, and kitchen, it lacked numerous items that were on the ERA. It also was an additional $10,000. The decision was easy, once a comparison spreadsheet was drawn up.

[hardybob]

Just joined this group while searching for house battery opinions.

We downgraded from a 36 foot Pace Arrow and bought a 2006 Roadtrek 210 Popular wide body. It has more than our 36 footer did except space. We were ready to give up towing a toad everywhere we went, and trying to get into smaller campgrounds, etc, and backtracking. I have to say that at this point we love having the smaller unit. We get 14 to 15 mpg on a 3500 Chevy Express platform. Parking in regular parking lots is possible in most cases, and as far as boondocking goes it's great. We have a roof mounted satellite dish. Roadtrek is #1 for a reason, and we chose it after looking at numerous other brands. Not to say that others aren't good as well, but we liked the layout better. We are retiring the end of May and will be leaving for our 4 month trip to nova scotia, newfoundland, and to key west before returning home to arkansas. After that trip I'll be able to say for sure if I like the smaller motorhome for long trips, but I'm betting yes.

Good luck in your decision.

Bob (hardybob)
06 RT 210P
AR

[Timblin]

Been living in a 25 ft. LTV Libero for a year now.

1. If you had a major downsize, was it too drastic, confining, complaints?
Interior space is adequate if you apply the "two-fer" rule. Each item must have at least two uses or it doesnt go.

2. Is there adequate space for necessities?
See #1.

3. Do you find rear bed setup/knockdown changes as annoying?
No - just like making a bed.

4. Is your fridge 3 cf, is it adequate? Some now show 5 cf fridges.
Requires adjustment

5. How about the different chassis -
- Sprinter diesel comments, is mileage around 20 plus mpg?
- Chev or Ford, is mileage around 14-15? Be truthful, please!

Chevy chassis. Average 16 mpg excpt in mountains.

6. Comments on reliability
No problems after 26000 miles.

7. Do any of you have setup for satellite TV?
Not yet.

8. Are there any 110V outlets inside to use when plugged in to power?
5 locations.

9. Comment if you have suggestions for specific features to look for.

[Libero]

We recently downsized from a 40ft Monaco Dynasty to a 25 ft LTV Libero also. Love the smaller rig. It is right sized for us at this stage in our lives. It has everything we had in our Monaco except a washer and dryer and a lot of space that I filled up with stuff I hauled around just in case. I pulled more than a 1000 lbs of stuff out of the Monaco that carried around that I did not need.

Love the flexibility of the smaller RV. Smaller fridge and tanks are not a problem. Don't need the 8kw gen. The 4kw works fine and does the job.

While I like driving without a toad, we recently bought a Smart Car to take on trips where a toad would be helpful. That little car is great and we love to have it on occasion - I can disconnect it in less than a minute.so when I need to shed the tow to manover the RV better I do that. My wife hops in the toad and either leads or follows as required. Or I take the toad and she drives the RV. I golf a lot and take it off to the course while she rests or does her on thing from the RV. She handles the RV just fine. My wife could never drive the big rig and that concerned her a lot. She is extremly happy we made the switch and I must say it was a move for the better at this stage in our lives.

The libero and our toad also fit in our RV garage. Another plus. Could not get the Monaco in the garage. It has an 11 foot high door and only 12 ft 3in clearance inside and is only 36 ft by 20ft.

So downsizing for us was absolutly the way to go. And the Libero suits us fine. We considered a Pleasureway Excel and the Roadtrek 210 but elected to go with the Libero for now.

[Rubix cube]

We went from a 2700 sq ft house to Mercedes Sprinter class B (Pleasure way Plateau). My observations:

Originally Posted by nooksack

1. If you had a major downsize, was it too drastic, confining, complaints?

I loved the freedom of being able to walk inside, when compared to most other class B (I'm 6'1"). Passing each other can be challenging if done often, but you learn to have one person doing stuff up front, and another in the rear until you both want to switch. Or, one makes bed while the other preps breakfast. We only shower in the vehicle when no other alternative is available. Otherwise, we joke that you put soap on curtain and spin. It's a limited Gray water tank thing.

Originally Posted by nooksack

2. Is there adequate space for necessities?

Yes, as long as you are willing to be spartan on the clothes. I keep mine in a soft side bag made by Traeger. This gets put in front seat ever night - yes this is why we laughingly call it the rubix cube. You WILL have to move stuff around to do what you want unless your wife is a much neater person than mine.

Originally Posted by nooksack

3. Do you find rear bed setup/knockdown changes as annoying?

We leave our bed down unless we are expecting company. The seat cushions on the electric seat do NOT make for comfortable sleeping, so be prepared to buy the two and a half foam cushions at COSTCO, and use sleep sacks or sleeping bags.

Originally Posted by nooksack

4. Is your fridge 3 cf, is it adequate? Some now show 5 cf fridges.

We have a 4 cf fridge and 2cf freezer - auto 3 way - propane, 12 and 110 volt. The largest offered in a B the year we bought, 2011. It provides sufficient room for a week's groceries, provided you don't buy all TV dinner type stuff.

Originally Posted by nooksack

5. How about the different chassis -
- Sprinter diesel comments, is mileage around 20 plus mpg?
- Chev or Ford, is mileage around 14-15? Be truthful, please!
- Where do you go for sprinter chassis or mercedes diesel problems?

With our E3500 we get 20 MPG if we keep it under 65 MPH and are on only a slight incline. Mountains, well the worst I've ever seen was 15, and that was going in excess of 70 in the mountains. I have all work done at the Mercedes dealer, except the DEF refill. Of course, you still have to leave a body part every time you have work done by them. It's a REAL good idea to have Good Sam towing insurance, as they have to tow you to the nearest place that is trained to work on your vehicle - note I didn't say AUTHORIZED if under warranty.) We have friends that own E2500 Sprinters by Roadtrek and they get 24 MPG when staying under 65 MPG. I haven't driven a E2500, but I can tell you our E3500 is more stable than a passenger car when a 18 wheeler passes us, and although the front end will wander in high perpendicular winds (40MPH) unless you are really on top of it, normally I have no problems in spite of the vehicle's height to width ration.

Originally Posted by nooksack

6. Comments on reliability, rig problems? All RV's have problems from time to time, you won't scare me.

I have not been impressed with the Mercedes aspect, nor the PW. Our power steering fluid hose disconnected at 6k miles, forcing us to have the vehicle put on a flatbed and taken to dealer - to their credit they fixed within 3 hours (South Denver Area dealer - good place). PW did a sloppy job on the access panels to the hot water inside, and the city fill outside, as well as the latch for the TV so it can be swung out into the aisle. But, we have several Roadtrek friends that have the same sort of complaints. had a small dripping problem that would empty our fresh water over 6 days, but was fixed under warranty.

Originally Posted by nooksack

7. Do any of you have setup for satellite TV?

We don't watch TV unless a hook-up is provided. Not a big source of entertainment for us. We do have a 12V TV which has a great picture. We do watch DVDs, and there is surround sound (not available when just watching TV.) I'm sure you could put a satellite system in - I would use roof mounted though, as storage for tripod would be an issue.

Originally Posted by nooksack

8. Are there any 110V outlets inside to use when plugged in to power?

Absolutely. 8 outlets. 4 in the cabin, two in the bathroom (which I put a waterproof cover on despite the GFCI), and two outside at the rear of the vehicle. They operate on generator as well as upon docking.

Originally Posted by nooksack

9. Comment if you have suggestions for specific features to look for.

We found that the Sprinter models have a smaller dog house (engine area protruding into passenger seating area.) It is almost non-existent. My little lady has had a hip and two knees replaced - this is a BIG plus for us.

The PW Plateau has the largest contained bathroom in the 2011 model. No bulge out into the aisle. Shower is contained in the bathroom itself. That said, it is STILL tiny compared to what you are used to.

I also felt like our model had the most leg room while driving. This can be a plus if you are a tall person.

So other stuff you didn't ask about:
Stove is small - two burner - not big enough for a large fry pan, but works well with medium and medium pot at the same time. Make sure you upgrade to the Convection/Microwave (not available in all vehicles) if you like frozen pizzas or browned chicken pot pies.

Sink is tiny, but then again you only have 35 gallons of fresh and 25 gray. So you learn to soap up dishes using a minimum amount of water, as well as rinsing.

Lots of LED 12V lighting in our model, something the 2010 and back Roadtrek owners love. Personal light over each bed, just right for reading.

LOTS of window space, which was a big plus for my claustrophobic wife.
Roadtrek 210 has more storage than our vehicle, but is a gas vehicle.

There seems to be trade offs between the Roadtreks and Pleasureway smaller vehicles so that we had a hard time choosing between them when we went to the Portland show, then we found most of the desirable features in our vehicle.

One really nice aspect about Roadtrek is in the after market area - they have a wonderful group of clubs. PW didn't even answer our inquiries. The Roadtrekers welcomed us as honorary RTers. Ok, so we get called SOBs every once in a while (some other brand).

The bulk of our storage is in overhead bins, (6 for her, one for me) and in a single hang up closet, 3 drawers, and three large cabinets. Do we have enough room? We regularity carry our toaster and coffee pot on months long trips.

The floors can get cold if it is the same outside, but three of those floor mats from COSTCO fix this.

Furnace is noisy, but whose isn't. We use a 'Vornado' brand electric heater (quiet, practically impossible to tip over and has safety shut off on tipping, as well as blockage of in or out vents.)

The E3500 can tow 5,000 lbs. I have never seen a smaller B pulling anything. We are in the process of buying a Mini Cooper - being delivered in a month. We figure this will reduce the cooped up feeling (if you'll pardon the pun given my avatar ) as well as provide more storage for the little lady.

We don't carry a spare, as the E3500 has dual back tires. In a pinch, we could get our road service to swap tires and limp into repair.

I did augment the house batteries with two 6 volt glass mats - we both use CPAPs, and I did buy a back up camera - you can't see squat when backing up, and the little lady doesn't like getting out in the rain.

Do we have enough room - well, I ain't skinny, and the "little lady" is about the same size, but not as tall. Did I mention we have a cat with a cat box ?

One aspect we liked when comparing Roadtrek to PW, was that PW's kitchen area faces out the sliding door. For the most part RT's faces the other side. If you want to converse with someone outside while making dinner, PW works better. But honestly, this is few and far between.

Good luck with your transition should you decide to go there - we've been really happy with our purchase. If I can answer any other questions - just ask.

[nooksack]

Thanks Rubix Cube for your very detailed response.
I have been working long hours "remodeling" my 2012 Sprinter ERA. I need to get ready for a shakedown weekend before taking off for Alaska by the middle of June. Our rig came with two extra captains chairs bdehind the driver and passenger. They have been removed. The package came with a 30" wide 1/2 length clothes closet now installed behind the drivers seat. That triples the hanging space and still leaves an unobstructed roadside front to back view to aid an open feeling. This is very inportant to my wife that has a tendancy for mild claustrophobia.
I have also built two additional cabinets. One is a 20" wide x 18" deep x 38" high unit that replaces the chair that was behind the passenger seat. That has multiple adjustable shelves with lightweight slide-out trays on each shelf. This offers considerable usable space for smaller items such as food stocks or pots and pans, etc. Above that is a 15" wide x 5-1/2" deep x 28" high "medicine" type of cabinet mounted on the forward outside of the bathroom wall.
To be able to run an electrical heater without compromising the 30-amp rig system, I installed 15-amp plugs back-to-back through the outside wall behind the drivers seat, that can be fed with an extra power cord from the 15-amp plugs usually found on the 50/30/15 posts in an RV park. Of course, if not at such a site, this would not work. But most of the time, we have that type of hookup. Thanks for the suggestion for the "Vornado" heater which you said is quiet. The ones I have been using on our bigger rigs have been a bit noisy.
I had a Wineguard Traveler fold down Directv antennae installed before I took delivery. To hold the "black box" antennae control, along with an H24 receiver, I built a lightweight hammock shelf under the upper cabinets, and got all of the spaghetti wires more or less out of sight without cluttering up the upper cabinets.
I have one more major hurdle and that is to design, fabricate, and install a netting system on the rear door opening, and the side sliding door opening, that will keep the Alaska mosquitos and southern no-see-ums at bay. The system has to be user friendly without a lot of commotion. We are exploring several ideas. One that will not be used are those aftermarket methods that are questionable as to effectiveness while still costing several hundred dollars for each opening. The irregular curved openings will be a challenge to my engineering skill, and my wife's sewing experience.
We head north in about 5 weeks. We will not be towing our car to Alaska, but I have already towed our 2007 Chev HHR without a problem -- plenty of power. Thanks again for your comments.

[Bris]

Originally Posted by nooksack

Thanks Rubix Cube for your very detailed response.
I have been working long hours "remodeling" my 2012 Sprinter ERA. I need to get ready for a shakedown weekend before taking off for Alaska by the middle of June. Our rig came with two extra captains chairs bdehind the driver and passenger. They have been removed. The package came with a 30" wide 1/2 length clothes closet now installed behind the drivers seat. That triples the hanging space and still leaves an unobstructed roadside front to back view to aid an open feeling. This is very inportant to my wife that has a tendancy for mild claustrophobia.
I have also built two additional cabinets. One is a 20" wide x 18" deep x 38" high unit that replaces the chair that was behind the passenger seat. That has multiple adjustable shelves with lightweight slide-out trays on each shelf. This offers considerable usable space for smaller items such as food stocks or pots and pans, etc. Above that is a 15" wide x 5-1/2" deep x 28" high "medicine" type of cabinet mounted on the forward outside of the bathroom wall.
To be able to run an electrical heater without compromising the 30-amp rig system, I installed 15-amp plugs back-to-back through the outside wall behind the drivers seat, that can be fed with an extra power cord from the 15-amp plugs usually found on the 50/30/15 posts in an RV park. Of course, if not at such a site, this would not work. But most of the time, we have that type of hookup. Thanks for the suggestion for the "Vornado" heater which you said is quiet. The ones I have been using on our bigger rigs have been a bit noisy.
I had a Wineguard Traveler fold down Directv antennae installed before I took delivery. To hold the "black box" antennae control, along with an H24 receiver, I built a lightweight hammock shelf under the upper cabinets, and got all of the spaghetti wires more or less out of sight without cluttering up the upper cabinets.
I have one more major hurdle and that is to design, fabricate, and install a netting system on the rear door opening, and the side sliding door opening, that will keep the Alaska mosquitos and southern no-see-ums at bay. The system has to be user friendly without a lot of commotion. We are exploring several ideas. One that will not be used are those aftermarket methods that are questionable as to effectiveness while still costing several hundred dollars for each opening. The irregular curved openings will be a challenge to my engineering skill, and my wife's sewing experience.
We head north in about 5 weeks. We will not be towing our car to Alaska, but I have already towed our 2007 Chev HHR without a problem -- plenty of power. Thanks again for your comments.

That trip you are taking Nooksack to Alaska has been my dream for years.
Is this your first trip to Alaska and how long are you planing to be there?
The people I have talk to that have gone to Alaska always return
They al say it beautiful . Maybe on your return you might post
the hi light of the trip.I have not had any luck on those two back door.
Please keep us posted on your success .
Good luck

of your trip hoping to go next year. Really would like to know
how you solved the problem on those back.door I have not
any success with that problem. Everyone that I have spoken
to that has

[Bris]

Originally Posted by Bris

That trip you are taking Nooksack to Alaska has been my dream for years.
Is this your first trip to Alaska and how long are you planing to be there?
The people I have talk to that have gone to Alaska always return
They al say it beautiful . Maybe on your return you might post
the hi light of the trip.I have not had any luck on those two back door.
Please keep us posted on your success .
Good luck

of your trip hoping to go next year. Really would like to know
how you solved the problem on those back.door I have not
any success with that problem. Everyone that I have spoken
to that has

As every one can see I am new at this posting
Double post